4 February 2011
09:2991445#1
Last Sunday a tree outside the Health Centre was felled.It is rumoured that further trees will be felled this Sunday
The Dover Society had several people ask what was going on. All this week I have had contact with DDC Planning and, to be fair, they have investigated. Our concern that there was no planning notices or consultation.
I quote below the reply Mike Dawson has obtained for us from Anne Russell:
"Yes, I was aware that this tree was scheduled to be felled. Kent Highway Services (KHS) gives DDC prior notification of proposed works to highway trees in our district and invites comments. They do, however, have the right to carry out works on safety grounds without the need to obtain consent from the Council, even where trees are protected by tree preservation order (TPO) or are within a conservation area.
The tree in question is located within a public footway, and adjacent to the public highway and is close to Dover Health Centre,The tree has been in decline for several years, I estimate there was 40% dead wood in its crown, so on safety grounds it would be difficult to object to its removal, and we could certainly have not justified protecting it by TPO because of its condition and public safety issues.
With regard to replanting, KHS are replanting trees in the Dover Distric on a regular basis, only yesterday I was notified by them six replacement trees that are to be planted, five in Dover one in Wingham. In the case of the tree at Dover Health Centre, my opinion is that replacing would not be practical because it was located in the middle of the footway and caused a partial obstruction, particularly to wheelchair users. However this has not been confirmed by KHS"
The tree was one of the original trees (over 100yrs old) and the stump (3' 6'' diamater) shows no sign of disease or rot. Indeed regular crown topping of 30% is done so if the tree (as stated known of its decline for years) had been dealt with it would still be there to-day.
The tree was possibly there before the pavement as it deviates behind (away from the road) and has a clea width of 5' 6''. My 85 year old mother-in-law regularly uses her mobility scooter past this point with no difficulty.
If the council want to keep pavements clear for pedestrians (which is what they are intended) then what about cars blocking pedestrian access (a point I think Howard has made on this Forum)
Is this KCC Highways doing another "Safety Barrier" activity.
I have passed all copies of e-mails to our two KCC Councillors seeking their intervention to stop (if true) further felling this Sunday.
With this type of action how long before other tree lined streets/avenues will be losing their trees.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
4 February 2011
09:3991449#2
Pat they have cut down many trees in Buckland Ave as well,that tree outside the Health Centre like most of the trees in Maison Dieu was such a lovely tree,now just a stump. It seems to me it is cut them down and replant later so they don't get too big and easier to manage.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
4 February 2011
09:4491450#3
Oh Dear oh dear..that is depresssing. Losing trees of over a hundred years old. lets hope they have a bloody good reason or its a kind of sacrilege. Any fiddling with trees causes upset...look at the Forest sell off debacle. The nation is united against it as anyone watching Question Time last night would have clearly seen. So trees are a very emotive topic.
Hopefully our two KCC guys can have a look at this.
4 February 2011
09:4591451#4
John
Of course if a tree is genuinely a safety or disease issue I have no problem and replant with a "mature" tree (not a 6' twig)
At present there are no plans of replacing , as we know, and in any case it looks from the e-mail from Anne Russell that DDC would not seek to support any replacement.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
4 February 2011
09:5091452#5
I thought all trees with a girth over a certain size had to get planning permission before ANY work could be carried out.
Unless the tree was in danger of falling over, which is unlikely, what safety grounds could there possibly be unless we are talking about a drunk walking into it.
A replacement tree can easily be planted on the grass area adjacent and I hope one is.
This reminds me of a certain council building in the same area that was suddenly demolished.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 February 2011
10:5691456#6
what worries me in that e mail that pat has posted is that kent highways can fell a tree if they see fit, whether it has a preservation order on it or not. i assume that they get expert advice from an arboriculturalist before any action is taken otherwise it is pure vandalism.
100 years to grow and half an hour to chop down.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
4 February 2011
11:1191460#7
It's a terrible shame I was shocked as I walked pass the massive stump of what seemed to me a healthy tree, it looks like the thought police have been swinging their axe again, literally!
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
4 February 2011
11:4591461#8
Not having seen it, if the stump is not totally level with the pavement it must NOW be a danger to pedestrians or has it been cordoned off.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
4 February 2011
13:3191470#9
I am given to understand that ELECTRICITY and TELEPHONE services can lop, or trim, or fell, a tree, as they wish, without any permission, if they think it is a hazard 'to cables etc' and the services. They just turn up, I think.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 February 2011
13:4091471#10
what remains would be causing the same obstruction as the original tree, the fact is(second pic) there is plenty of space to get around it.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
4 February 2011
13:4291472#11
A great shame, but the roots of trees that big can't be doing the road and pavements much good as well as any services that run through them. I am sure people would soon complain if their phone lines were damaged by the roots !!
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 February 2011
13:5591474#12
IMAGE]215-1296823893.jpg[/IMAGE]
not an expert but i saw no sign of disease, the damage to the side seems to be man made.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
4 February 2011
14:0291476#13
Those are sad pictures...
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
4 February 2011
14:5791479#14
To my certain knowledge there have been two applications to fell this tree passed through the planning process, both rejected. I do not recall any requests for pollarding or any other work on it.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
4 February 2011
15:0691480#15
Howard
Thanks for pics. Confirms what I originally placed on #1 (Must learn the picture on forum system)
Chris
I went onto DDC Planning website for "Search Applications" but it does not go back earlier than 2008 although shows on the webpage back to 1980.
Therefore asked Planning Dept if any previous applications because as some local residents state the same as you that previous requests to fell the tree had been refused.
To update.
DDC have passed my concern to KCC Highways. Have had a refeence number from them but no confirmation that work (felling) on other trees will or will not take place this Sunday.
Still hoping our KCC Councillors will do something.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
4 February 2011
15:3691481#16
Looking at Howard's pictures I would have thought it is definitely a hazard to pedestrians as well as being an eyesore. I hope the stump is going to be ground out very soon.
Kent Highways have made complete fools of the idea of having a planning department it will be interesting to know if the tree officer, or whatever he is called was consulted. The KHS ethos must be 'we have been told no twice we will go ahead and do it anyway'.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
4 February 2011
15:5291483#17
Howard very well done getting those pix. No doubt about it in cases like these pictures speak a thousand words, now we can see the situation. The tree looks fine but of course just to my amateur eye. But painful to see any tree go unless absolutely necessary. Also very interesting info in post 14 from Chris.
Keep up the good work Pat.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
4 February 2011
17:5091496#18
The last Tree Warden was Vic Matcham and I do believe that he dealt with the first application. Perhaps he can remember more details.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
4 February 2011
18:0791497#19
thank you for that Mr Precious,At one time when I was the Tree Warden,I did go along and had alook at all the trees along there and the ones outside the the school.I could not find anything wrong with any of them and put that in my report,but there was one inside the school grounds that was in a bad way and had to come down,I still have my book on all trees in the UK and what to look for when they are unwell,I will try to find it with it might be my reports on the trees.But I did send one off to D.D.C or Kent highways.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 February 2011
18:2991501#20
rather disturbing that permission is refused and they go ahead anyway, bearing in mind that if they feel the tree is unsafe they do not need permision to fell. this suggests that the tree was healthy.
