Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Good
Old '
Democracy', is
at it again?
It is difficult to know where to begin, so I shall begin at the end...
"No action shall be possible under the law - be it criminal or civil - in any matter that stems solely from or is based largely upon information and content gleaned from virtual sources: no judgement of culpability or conspiracy shall be attached to any cumulation of any such virtual content whatsoever." [Tom1]
This, the above, is not perfect, (not quite perfect), but this is as it should be. For it to be otherwise would be to invite praise only, when what is essential is comment.
A little added background...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10830233 Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
OK, this may have more to do with plans to forge ahead with the communications data bill, the so called "snoopers charter", than it has to do with the 'Prism' issue that surfaced in the past week.
Yet both issues concern the standing of the citizen and the scope of State authority.
Hague is to make a statement on 'Prism' in the house tomorrow (Monday 10th), here he is on TV today...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/prism-gchq-william-hague-statement
Part of the text in the above link reads...
"The foreign secretary said GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 were overseen by the relevant secretary of state, by the interception commission and by parliament's intelligence and security committee.
"If you are a law-abiding citizen of this country going about your business and your personal life you have nothing to fear - nothing to fear about the British state or intelligence agencies listening to the contents of your phone calls or anything like that. Indeed you will never be aware of all the things those agencies are doing to stop your identify being stolen and to stop a terrorist blowing you up tomorrow."
And yet the instances when Anti-Terror legislation has been misapplied are numerous:from random searches to the sinister freezing of assets.*
*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/25/uksecurity.lawIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
It amazes me that people never realised that mass monitoring is the norm
The politicians are petrified that one day the people will wakeup
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
how far does this surveillance go though, if it was 100% perfect there would be no serious crimes or terrorist acts?
the state needs to be reined in to a certain extent - it seems more about control of the population than anything else.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
And the winner of the Longest Thread Title is.................. Tom
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Defiantly alcohol and keyboard
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#5
Yes Jan, that did cross my mind. I recall PaulB giving the 'award' to the previous title holder, Alex.
I was going to use: "Thought; word:indeed" But I felt that this would be too short.
This just goes to show that a middle-aged white man can get nothing right.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Retired in middle age tom ,must be public sector
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
much as i hate to be politically correct, it may help your cause if you black up tom.
done al jolson's career no end of good.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
7, talking of Alex, he hasn't logged in for a few days. I hope he is ok.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i am sure alex is ok, being self employed he has busy and quiet spells, posts mostly during the latter and he doesn't post much on a sunday as he is a church goer.
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
Who told you all that ? GCHQ?
Never give up...
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
@ Richard.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 744- Registered: 20 Mar 2012
- Posts: 412
"Brevity is the soul of wit"
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
no a tall chap with grey hair and has an irish accent.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
First, some important information...
"People who are out of work or currently taking one of the other qualifying state benefits (e.g. Housing Benefit) can now get a cheap computer from just £24 alongside broadband thanks to a new special offer ..."
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2013/06/jobless-uk-people-benefit-from-24-pc-and-cheap-broadband-bundle.html
Clearly getting online is getting cheaper with Fixedline Broadband between £12 - £20 per month (most of this line rental).
The next proposition...
This proposition [Tom2] in no way affects [Tom1]...
"That all ISPs recompense subscribers 100+% of the fee charged for providing a limitless broadband package with line rental charges to be fixed universally at the mean of the current level."
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
NSA leaks: how to make surveillance both ethical and effective
"...So we should not fuss too much about these specific revelations. But we should certainly not stop debating the underlying issues as technology continues to advance: about how governments go about balancing rights and responsibilities as they try both to keep us safe and to maintain a free and open society in which privacy is respected. We need therefore to be clearer about the ethical principles that should apply. I believe it would help public debate if those principles were set down and endorsed by the parliamentary intelligence services oversight committee. I would suggest six such principles...
There must be sufficient sustainable cause...
There must be integrity of motive. ...
The methods used must be proportionate...
There must be right and lawful authority...
There must be a reasonable prospect of success....
Recourse to secret intelligence must be a last resort....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/11/make-surveillance-ethical-and-effective Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
who would decide whether those 6 principles apply to each situation though?
when it is believed a terrorist act is close to happening time is of the essence.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
The methods used must be proportionate...
How would you define proportionate in the case of a suspected conspiracy to committ mass racially aggravated murder?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
[I have only set out the headings, using the link and reading the whole article might save confusion.]
Peter, is not the argument you use the same old, "What if a Nazi were about to rape your sister/mother?"
Perhaps it would be best overall to trial all such surveillance initially within HMRC?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.