Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 November 2010
21:5980596Germany and France pulling out of the Euro leaving it to the weaker countries would be the better solution, Peter is right, but it wont happen because it is a political experiment to regiment European nations into a superstate. As a result the Euro will struggle on, weaker economies will get worse until it eventually collapses.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
17 November 2010
22:1680602The electorates in both Germany and France are so hacked off with the euro-integration process that the desire for its continuation only exists in the minds of politicians in the weaker countries, and possibly French farmers. The whole thing is doomed. European economic and/or political union is a busted flush.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 November 2010
22:1980603Agreed Peter. It will collapse, the big question is how orderly or otherwise will the collapse be.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
17 November 2010
22:4880611Keith, reading post 2, I suppose one could suggest that if Britain got a bail-out, from other E.U. states, in proportion to that of Ireland, which would mean a much higher figure, it might be one thing.
Being in the euro or not is irrelevant, being in the e.u. is what determines many economic factors.
The club is the e.u., rather than the euro. But there are a number of countries in the e.u.: Britain, Germany, France, and others, who do the bailing out, and as we have seen, Britain does not need to be in the euro in order to take part in doing the bailing out.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
17 November 2010
23:2980618barryw,peter and co,so many sceptics on line all at once,tut tut yeah of little faith.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
17 November 2010
23:4380621Sadly Brian, whilst I am a europhile, there is a lot of truth in what Barry & Peter say.
The eurozone is a construct conceived so as to be of benefit to France & Germany in particular; unfortunately the Club Med countries chose to play the game by different rules leading to in many instances huge structural deficits that they thought the French and German economies would fund ad infinitum. This was plausible (just) when we were in the economic good times, but totally impossible in the bad times, and of course the German and French people do not want to be seen or used as the lender of last resort for the Club Med etc. when these countries have pi55ed away all their money.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
17 November 2010
23:5180623ross,im sadend by some of the coments on this thread,its the none believers that make sad and mad.they remind me of dinosours,and those large birds who bury there heads in the sand hoping it will go away.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
18 November 2010
00:1980628Brian I am a firm believer in the ideals in the Treaty of Rome but sadly the EEC got hijacked by French federalists (mostly) and they corrupted those ideals to try and create a federated European state - the Euro is one of the results of that desire for a single European state - whilst it may be plausible to do this, it is only possible if you win the hearts and minds of the majority of the people of Europe something the European political elite have chosen not to or failed to do.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 November 2010
00:4680634Brian, if Britain had a euro or a pound as the currency, it wouldn't make the economy either better or worse. There are various economic factors that influence an economy and many economies when trading with each-other.
One of these is the average national salary being different in some countries than in others. If you care to look at the average salary offered for various kinds of work in different e.u. countries, you will foind that they vary enormously between East and West.
By the way, Brian, are you the only person in Britain who advocates the euro? I'm not saying you shouldn't, but after all it's only a piece of paper with pictures on it. What would really change economically in Britain if we had he euro?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
07:3080641We would be in a straightjacket Alexander.
We benefitted from the £sterling being able to take some of the pressure as it can 'float'. If we were in the Euro we would not have that advantage.
Remember the failed EMU from the late 80's - our shadowing the DMark and Major taking us into EMU was the main cause of our problems back then, only when we crashed out of it did the UK recovery begin.
We have a very different economy to the Europeans, more small/self-employed businesses, more home ownership, more personal debt - the Euro straightjacket would not be good for us.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
18 November 2010
08:3380646what ever barry you keep believing that.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
18 November 2010
08:3580647alex,the greedy money changers would have one less curency to rip us of with,
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
09:1680653Check your history Brian - it is fact.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
18 November 2010
09:2180655I have to admit I am shocked by the current crises in Ireland. As many will know I am a strong supporter of both the European Union and the Euro, or have been in the past. Some of you will have read my ramblings over the years spouting support for these goals and ideals.
At the time Ireland was doing very well. I have investments over there and as the Euro grew stronger my investments were worth ever more. However as we know all thats gone south. At least for now.
But in our own lowly way here on Doverforum, we are affected by the Irish crises. Money from my humble investments there, allowed me to do this site, to have it built, and indeed are paying to keep me here every single day running it. Ireland's Euros are paying for all this beleive it or not...weird world isnt it.
So if lowly Doverforum is affected by the crises you can see how so many businesses here in the UK , many on a huge scale, are intertwined with Irelands huge market, this is why George Osborne suddenly leapt in with offers of help. Thankyou George !
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
18 November 2010
09:3380656Well what have I been saying and UKIP 0ver the years the way forward out of the mess is by coming out of the EU and get back on the world Markets and the way our PM is going around the world at this time,he must be thinking the same.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 November 2010
09:3980658You are partially right Vic - we do need to get out. But we would still be affected by the EU's problems even if not inside it.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
18 November 2010
09:4180660You might be right there Barry,but our cash would be saved.
Will I be PM yet,or MP,its all letters to me.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
18 November 2010
10:2180663howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 November 2010
12:5380673i doubt that the government has any choice in the matter, they were committed to do so by the last government for one thing, more importantly there are many irish companies unable to make loan repayments to brtitish banks.
we already know they are one of our biggest trading partners, if they are skint they cannot buy from us.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
18 November 2010
12:5480674howard,
just saw you get off the bus in town
how come your posting so quick???
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS