Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
#21
Ukippers choose to ignore the big picture.
John Buckley
- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#22
That`s just not true Reg, I went and saw the latest James Bond movie only recently!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#23
post 20
very nearly an excellent post john, i do remember tony benn warning of what would happen and he was proved right, the problem was that all the money was behind the "yes" campaign so the result was a foregone conclusion. in recent years the "people's party" has forgotten who they are supposed to represent and have turned into something that has appeal nor to the chattering classes.
albania is just a red haddock, by the time they qualify for e.u. membership the whole thing will have broken up completely or really not worth joining.
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#24
Yes, you`re right Howard, a good and true post by Keith. You`re also correct about Albania, hopefully by the time they ever joined we would be long gone from the farce that is the EU. Although don`t forget of course that they have the support of our wonderful " Middle East Peace Envoy" giving them advice on how to join and become a fully integrated memeber. Quite why Blair needs to get involved in that I really don`t know. Couldn`t be money could it?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#25
got you two mixed up!!
more importantly am i the only person alive never to have watched a "bond" film all the way through?
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#26
Errrrrrmmmmm............YES! ( probably! )
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
#27
£45 million per day, wouldn't that pay off this massive debt that the last government left us with and that the present government has failed to do anything about clearing ?
Would we lose out on trade and employment, and could we repatriate all the 'foreigners who are taking our jobs'?
Who cares about house prices anyway ? Once they have risen so high so that no-one can afford to buy one, the prices will fall back to a level where they can be bought, I feel sure there won't be thousands of overpriced houses sitting empty while all the potential buyers sleep rough, frantically saving for a deposit. As has already been said, we were led to believe that the EEC was a trading partnership, so regulations such as selling goods by the kilo make perfect sense to me, its the rest of the stuff that goes on. Euro commissioners, nobody really knows what they do, but they get paid a lot of money for doing it, and we could probably live without them,
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#28
With so much that seems settled in your mind Barrie, why did you pose the question in the first place?
Let us begin with the £45m/day, and here as with everything else EU-related, could we please pay attention and get the quantities correctly identified, the £45m/day Nett!
Must we then assume that the portion of the money we pay, that we get back is to continue to be doled-out as now?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
#29
Not at all settled. The EU either costs us £45 million a day, or it doesn't. Am I to assume that this is not true, and if it isn't true, how much does it really cost us. I asked the question to get some answers, non politically biased if possible. Is it wrong to say that our membership status in the EU has changed since we joined, and that is not always to our advantage, and how would house prices rise if we were to leave ? What do the commissioners do, and are they worth the money they get, or is it an old pals act where failed MPs go to line their pockets. I have a vast store of knowledge in my field, but I know very little about things like the EU, and there are forum members who seem to know what they are talking about, that's why I asked the question, to get some answers, not to be told that I already have my mind settled on the subject.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#30
First, Barrie; nobody has said that you have your mind settled. Not on all aspects, anyway.
The £45m/day is only an argument to leave the EU. It is not a figure that has anything to do with being out of the EU...
"Annual Costs of EU Membership
The net cost of the EU budget to Britain in 2011 was £10.8 billion* and rising. But the actual cost - direct and indirect - is much more than that.
Last time it was calculated, in 2008, the European Union was costing us £65 billion gross every year. That's about £1,000 each every year for every man, woman and child in the UK. It increases every year, so it will be a lot more now.
* Source: Office for National Statistics "Pink Book" "
http://www.democracymovementsurrey.co.uk/dyk_eucosts.html
The quote above is simply the first one I came across. I do not have the foggiest notion of what they mean by 'indirect costs'.
It would have been better from them to stick with the gross payment, but why let facts get in the way?
No matter how our membership status has changed, each alteration was signed into UK law by both the Political Partys that have held the reins of the UK since the referendum. Why not ask the next time a 'rosette' comes to your door?
"...not always to our advantage" Who says? Who is this 'our'?
The effects of the UK leaving the EU that I project;house price rises etc. would be the effects of the 'saving' of all this money we hear mentioned being spent in line with how such windfalls have been spent historically, i.e. Tax Breaks.
I have yet to hear from any in the 'out' camp about how the UK would progress;internally or internationally.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#31
Here is something only an organisation like the EU can give us...
Labour cost index - recent trends
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Labour_cost_index_-_recent_trends#Labour_cost_index
When/IF we leave the EU we shall nothing to fall back on but the statements of 'our' Politicians and their statisticians, not a prospect I look forward to.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
#32
If you have read that lot and made sense of it, you've gone right up in my estimation.
Here's what I think I've found out:
We are a nett importer, so trade with europe wouldn't suffer too badly, if at all.
We would be 'allowed' to trade with other countries that we can't at the moment which could improve our trading profits.
We wouldn't have to pay vast sums of money into the EU kitty, but we wouldn't get a proportion of it back, and there doesn't seem to be an accurate nett figure for this. (There should be, basic accounting would call for it)
It could be possible to remove 'european' criminals and other such undesirables as they wouldn't have automatic rights to live here, but this could work against British citizens living and working in europe.
As for your last statement, you're probably aware of my opinion of our politicians, so I won't go into that.
Which countries can't we trade with at the moment ? Obviously not China, but even I can work out why they are not on the 'banned' list.
I have learned quite a bit from this, didn't know most of the above before today.
The house price thing, can't the idiots in government actually do something useful with the windfall, like pay off the country's debts, or sort the NHS out or start large capital projects. (Haha, what are they ? roads...)
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#33
We can trade with anyone we like but imports from countries outside the EU attract a minimum 10% import duty which is laid down under EU law. We can only enter into free trade arrangements with other countries as part of an EU-wide deal. By EU law we are prohibited from entering into bilateral trade deals or joining any other supranational trade organisations such as NAFTA. In addition the EU lay down quotas for import of certain goods which individual countries cannot exceed.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
#34
Wow ! That's very restrictive, although I understand the reasoning, but when, like the UK you're a nett importer we could be quite seriously penalised by a law like that. Don't they slag the US off for protectionism ? (Not that I care, I'm no fan of theirs)
Does the EU overall produce everything we need, not luxury stuff, just essentials ? Sorry if thats a big question, but I'm having my eyes opened here.
I tend to get isolated in my little corner, and to save my blood pressure I try to ignore whatever the politicians say (whatever party), I don't watch TV or listen to the radio, nor do I read newspapers. The internet has taken over as my information provider, although I do remember to take it all with a very large pinch of salt. With a third party coming along to maybe replace the whigs, I've found an interest in the EU springing up (against my better judgement probably).
This country doesn't appear to be getting much of a benefit from being a member of the EU, at least thats what I seem to understand so far.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#35
we are a political football.allso a political gofor for both.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#36
Enlargement of the EU is basically a rich mans land grab
2 thirds of farming land in Lithuania is now owned by rich Germans
The population is exported to work in the richer countries, reducing wages for the indigenes workers in that country. win win for the rich
The money being sent back starts to lift the wealth in the poor country economy.
So the rich man goes in very cheap
Then the rich man rides the property money wave all the way to the bank
They learnt this trick from unification of eastern Germany
Albania Kosovo turkey and the Yugoslavia countries ,could be joining faster than you think.
Very rich picking to be had. And controlling wages at home what a bonus
I would love to see the money trails amongst politicians.
I bet Blair has picked up some good deals in Albania for his oiling of the wheels
