Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
This is a genuine question, and if possible I would like some serious and considered answers. Its a massive question, but back in the seventies we joined the EEC, which, if my memory serves, was a trading partnership with the few countries that comprised 'Europe'. Avoiding party political tribalist electionspeak, can anyone explain to a non political affiliated person like me, why it has changed (for the worse ?), should we stay in and change our status, or should we leave, and whether or not we can, and what the consequences might be.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
Just to save Keith B. the trouble,
bit political for me.................
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
If it reverts to being just a free trade zone, and all the other stuff is dismantled (some chance) we should stay in. Otherwise we should leave and make our own free trade arrangements.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
If you take yourself up onto the Cliffs on a nice balmy day ( not today
) and sit down for a while and gaze at the constant and never-ending train of trucks heading to the EU with all the products we produce ...and think then of all the hard working people who produce those products ...then ask yourself why on earth you would want to be outside such a market, such a club.
Then gaze to your left to the cargo terminal and see the constant shipping going to Antwerp and Rotterdam and ask yourself the same question.
Outside the EU you relegate yourself to the status of a Nigeria or something.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
I understand the trade part of it, but its the rest of it that doesn't seem to work. There was a point where europeans could travel across borders, but British travellers had to have a valid passport to travel into France. Then there is the difference in alcohol and spirit duty, if we have to have the 'bad' bits of the EU, why don't we get the good bits that they seem to get across the water, like cheaper derv and lpg ? Most of it seems to be a one way street, but not in a favourable direction for us.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Sorry Paul, that is absolute nonsense.
We would still trade just as much in or out as we are net importers from the European countries and they would not impose high tariffs on our goods - for their own benefit they would keep it the same.
We can easily build on trade with the rest of the World, so our market could be even bigger.
What direct influence do you really think that Britain has within the European Union ?
Being in the European Union is not doing us any favours at all; with a bill of around £45 million (net contribution) per day, just think of the many and varied things that could be done with that money.
We were lied to the last time we had a vote and have not been given once since - because they know we would vote NO.
Roger
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 4..Paul....totally.totally agree.We have missed your sound logic postings.
The EU are slowly moving towards removing some of the `warts`and that should be continued.
Put away all political prejudicial leanings,stand on a mountain and look hard into the forest and its a no brainer
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Certainly a no-brainer, but for the opposite reason.
Roger
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
Good question Barrie
Equally good reply from Peter that I agree with.
Paul, I agree there are a lot of lorries as the vast majority of the many that enter the UK also have to return to their own country. I wonder how many are carrying home produced items, how many are redistributing imported items and how many are returning virtually empty.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barrie,getting from the uk to france and back is a hurdle,once your in france you can drive to all points of the compass of the eu without showing your passport.
as for derv,lpg and petrol,along with booze and tobacco products I cant see the uk reducing the taxes to eu levals.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Many times I have driven onto the boat without having to show passports. Not the same coming back, for very good reasons.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
trade would be unaffected whether we are inside or outside of the e.u. we are nett importers and always will be.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
i think we would need to get clariffication from other countries that we would not be affected
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
are you suggesting they would refuse to sell to us keith?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
i think that a lot of them want us to stay in
not sure of the reaction if we didnt
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
John Buckley
- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Keith, very simply, we buy more off them than they buy off us. Trade is a two way thing. Do you really believe that they would want to lose one of their biggest importers of goods? It would harm them much more than us, don`t forget that there are also many other global markets out there that we can trade with once outside of the restraints that the EU puts upon us.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
in the state this country is in
might not be a good way forward till country sorts itself out
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
This country is in a state Keith largely BECAUSE of the EU!
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I do wonder as to what these 'very good reasons' might be.
As to the question itself.
I'll begin with the answer to my own question, which I will state in a mo...
Maybe it is all down to the fact that we are net-contributors.
For the question that leaps out at me is:Why is this topic always discussed in terms of 'Them and Us'?
The EU is a huge thing, when looked at from all sorts of angles. Yes, it could be said that we were lied to way back when. I think it is rather more accurately expressed as; We were miss-sold to, as we quite often are on a whole range of subjects.
Is the NHS safe in the hands of the coalition? Has the privatisation of our Utilities yielded the promised results?
Should there be a standing UK Truth & Reconciliation Commission?
There is a deal of dogmatism at the heart of the EU. There does seem to have been much optimism and with that some profound envisioning of a greater tomorrow, but little or no flexibility allowed for in journeying from then through the now and on to the future. The world has changed and has left many a Governmental Institution in a spin.
Barrie:Where is the logic in saying that there was never such a thing as a simple 'trading partnership', and then to clamour to get back to it being a simple trading partnership?
It is part of the British Disease, this habit of Dominance rather than partnership, extortion rather than cooperation, our way or no-way.
To a great degree, our membership of the EU - and what the EU actually is and what it could become, and the utter confusion that reins overall, stems from the fact that we have never actually played our part as full members of the EU. [This may be why we have a tunnel and not a bridge?]
It is the overweening principle that we are in it only for what we can get out of it; our 'proud' stance as parasite supreme. As you have read above:They are dependant upon us more than we are on them.
As far as this £45m/day goes, well it would (certainly) buy an awful lot of Yachts, raise house prices through the roof, and ensure that next-to-no company would pay corporation tax, and the EU would still serve as the excuse for not doing....
fill the rest in yourself.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
The EU membership was miss sold to the British public,,,this is the problem
The left wing of the labour party campaigned to stop the British working class voting for EU membership because they understood back in 1975 that it would result in the lowering of wages and job loses for the British working class.
Just goes to show we no longer have a proper labour party that supports the British working class
They actually support the importation of cheap workers to undermine the wages and jobs of British workers class.
Vote labour get Albania is the reality.
The British public never voted for every rag ass nations to come flooding in to the UK and park them selves on folkestone road.
