howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 November 2010
20:0278494#21
i hear so often people saying in pubs how they would love to pull the lever.
most would be reduced to jelly if asked, if not there must be something wrong with them.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
4 November 2010
20:0478496#22
Who give`s us the right to take another life? What about war? Where do you draw the line? So many question`s and so many answer`s. It`s purely a matter of personal opinion, there is no hard and fast answer. And of course, in execution, we`re not doing the same as the killer did. The law upholder`s don`t go round killing ordinary citizen`s for the sake of it, or financial gain, or any other such thing you can think of.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
4 November 2010
20:2878505#23
Mmmm what about Christian values?
Do these not underpin the fabric of our society. laws and dare I say culture and history, or does the desire for revenge and retribution negate these?
All the evidence from the USA is that murder rates have not changed despite them having not only the death penalty but also the 3 strikes rule.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
4 November 2010
21:1878516#24
The most difficult thing for me to think about when this subject pops up, is the deterrent factor. We just don`t know, and never will know just how many people are unknowingly alive today because of it. Same as any crime really, I`d like to rob a bank, but I know I`ll get caught and I don`t want to be locked up for years. Prison is the deterrent. Nice to meet you again today Ross, along with three other forumite`s out and about.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
4 November 2010
22:1178525#25
You make a good point about deterrance.
It is about more than just deterring murder, soft penalties for horrific murder (and all penalties for that are soft if it means no capital punishment) has a knock on effect down the line.
The whole criminal justice system in this country is a complete joke. Thugs and other criminals laugh at the fools who excuse their crimes.
We need more punishment, longer tougher sentences rock breaking and capital punishment for the very worse.
And yes, Howard - I would pull the lever on that bloke in the video, gladly - see him laugh then, as he does so easily when talking about the woman he bludgeoned to death. I would see it as a public duty to rid this earth of that creature and others like him.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
4 November 2010
23:2978535#26
As I said earlier we will have to agree to disagree on the issue of capital punishment.
However I do agree that there needs to be tougher sentencing, sentencing escalation for repeat crimes/criminals, no automatic remission or parole - it should be earned through exemplary behaviour if at all, no distinction between crimes against the person and crimes against property as ultimately property is owned by people, sensible tariffs for crimes like rape, ABH, GBH etc.
Minor offences should be punished by community service but proper 9-5 work not swan up when you like and do nothing as it appears to be now, with the caveat that failure to turn up will see you serve the rest of your sentence in prison.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
4 November 2010
23:5078537#27
What I can't understand is why in London there are so many stabbings from bands of young people, often school-goers, who decide to chase a lone person down the street and carry out an execution, or a serious injury. I read recently that what we get to hear on the news or read in the papers about it is only the tip of the iceberg!
I've been wondering how the Londoners are different from us, that that happens there where-as we in Kent do not have that mentality. It baffles me.
When I went to school, the was one law only in a fight: it had to be fair, and if it got too rough, it was broken up by the children standing around in a circle watching! In my days then children were fair.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
4 November 2010
23:5278538#28
Not that I advocate fights among children, I don't, but in London, these never-ending reports of group executions...it just must not come here to Kent!
5 November 2010
09:2978555#29
As you probably realise, I am with Ross on this one. Additionally, I think that parading this man on television and haranguing him with his offence, goading him until he becomes "offensive" according to Neill who has himself been discourteous and provoking was a gross error of judgement and wholly irrelevant to the point. This is not about individuals and their crimes, it is about the right to participate in a community to which most prisoners will return. The right to vote should and will be on a sliding scale, and if we intend - as we should - to attempt to reintegrate prisoners into society and reduce reoffending we need to support their stake in it and that includes voting.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
5 November 2010
09:3778557#30
BERN;
'm realy unsure about the long term, but im clear on the present, that anyone in prison shouldn't be able to vote, if found guilty.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 694- Registered: 22 Mar 2010
- Posts: 778
5 November 2010
10:3378561#31
I love my dad he makes me chuckle because he is FOR them having the vote
but only if their polling card doesnt go to to the prison but their home address....
they violated the legal system of this country and therefore if they hadnt been naughty they would be able to access their vote...
why should they get it?!!
Hanging... well i dont mind... if it deters some, and like that woman in the press recently, she doesnt recognise the power of the court, well young lady..i dont recognise your right to continue in this country and you cant be sent anywhere else because of national security... so.. leaves one option..
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
5 November 2010
10:4678563#32
I don't think it matters much. The prospect of losing the vote is hardly going to deter many criminals from committing offences, and having it is hardly going to assist in rehabilitation. And nobody will be harmed by a prisoner voting by post. Most villains would not regard the vote as a privilege anyway, so the issue is irrelevant to all four objectives of incarceration, namely deterrence, rehabilitation, protection of the public and punishment. While there are many unnecessary EU-imposed hoops to jump through, I don't think this is one we really need to waste ammunition on.
PG.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 November 2010
11:0878565#33
What Peter saying is of course true.
Jenni - they would have postals of course but remember they do not need the voting card to vote.
Guest 694- Registered: 22 Mar 2010
- Posts: 778
5 November 2010
11:1078566#34
why am i paying for postal votes?!
I already pay for them to be kept... and fed , warm, etc... nope.. no postal vote..
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 November 2010
12:3278582#35
alexander, a lot of those kids with guns in our inner cities are from war torn countries where they were told to fight battles at the age of 7, somalia is a good example.
they were never going to change upon arrival here.
i don't see the same scenario anywhere near here.