howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 February 2011
13:1893164never off the news now, demonstrations in algeria, libya, bahrain, yemen and others.
it seems clear that the despots running these countries know the end is near and are probably hanging on long enough to get their sizeable fortunes to a safe haven.
the upside of all the troubles is that the americans have been shown to be powerless to do anything.
ms clinton mumbles on about letting the people have their liberty and decmocracy, this after propping up the dictatorships for many years.
18 February 2011
16:4093181The arabs are doing what I feel safe with. If they want to fight amongst themselves that is fine.
It means they will be far to engrossed in kicking the sh*t out of each other. It makes for a far safer world for the rest of us. And now I dare say some one is going to tell me how uncaring and misguided I am.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
18 February 2011
17:0793182Actually Jimmy I agree. They should be left to sort out their own problems without people like Obama and Clinton calling the shots. It is interference from the American-Israeli axis which they resent and which turns them into suicide bombers. Some of that anger is directed at Britain because Tony Bliar was Bush's glove puppet.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
18 February 2011
17:1293183jimmy,you are uncaring and misguided,now that we got that out of the way i agree with what you and peter says.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 February 2011
18:0493189Firstly, Israel has nothing to do with all these demonstrations around the Arab world, Peter.
Adding to that, I feel that the Arab world needs to review their economic policy to fit in with rapid population increase, and this would imply reducing their military budgets, which are excessively high, and finding trading agreements with the British Isles in the field of agricultural development.
This would boost our industry enormously, as plenty of infrastructure is needed for irrigation in hot and smi-desert/desert regions. It would also boost our agricultural output, as increasing populations need more food.
The oil-rich countries of the Arabian Gulf, and also Libya and Algeria, which both have oil and gas reserves, would be obvious places to look to in search of conrtracts, perhaps with some rich Arabic-speaking countries financing some projects in the poorer Arabic countries.
With Pfizer closing and our Country reeling under unemployment and deficit, it would be time to start taking this into consideration. The reciprical gains for us and the Arab world would be what comes under fair trade and common sense.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
18 February 2011
18:4193190Alexander, have you lived among the Arabs? Do you understand the simmering resentment they feel on behalf of their Palestinian cousins?
Algeria and Yemen have huge tracts of fertile land on which they grow enough food to feed themselves and export the surplus. Egypt. Syria. Lebanon and Jordan also all export produce to the richer Arab states who have provided those countries with the technology to grow food in the desert.
Saudi Arabia is the leading country in the region in terms of desert agriculture and has several universities with research going on into that field. 30 years ago they depended on the West for knowledge but the technology transfer has well and truly taken place. In 1990 I visited what was then the world's largest dairy farm. 100 miles south of Riyadh on the edge of the Empty Quarter. There's nothing we can teach them about arid agriculture and we can't sell them food because 1. We need all we can produce and more and 2. they can produce it more cheaply than we can. If you look at the packets of fresh herbs in certain supermarkets, they say Produce of Israel. In most cases, not true; they are grown in the West Bank and packaged in Israel and shipped from there.
Abu Dhabi is at the forefront of cloud-seeding technology to make rain in the desert.
They don't need us, they just need us to leave them alone.
The Arabs can look after themselves. We should leave them to it.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
18 February 2011
18:4193191Sorry. Hit button twice!
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 February 2011
19:0293199the way i see it the problems are the same in all the countries in the region.
autocrats(either dictators or royal families rule), they are weighed down by dosh and make sure they look after a sizeable in crowd.
the rest of the population seem to be made up of the following:-
the well educated who find they can not get a decent job.
people in low paid jobs facing continual price rises in basic items.
and the underclass.
all of the above are unhappy.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
18 February 2011
20:0593210Good fag-packet analysis, Howard. To the list you have to add the idle rich in countries like Kuwait, Abu Dhabi and Dubai, who will also be on the warpath when their governments can no longer afford to buy them off.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 February 2011
20:4293223Peter, are you suggesting that we shouldn't have any economic relations at all with the Arab world, apart from importing oil?
Since when is advocating increased trade and commerce with other countries on a reciprocal bases equivalent to 'not leaving them alone'?
May-be you would like to explain how Britain can aford to pay every day enormous amounts of cash to oil-producing countries, without seeking to get a return by endeavouring to also export more to them of that which they need!
Furhtermore, I still hold firm to my statement that many countries in the Arab world spend too much on their military budget. I have been praising the Government for reducing our militarfy budget, it is only natural that I should suggest that other countries do likewise.
May-be you should inform yourself as to the water reserves of many Arab countries, which are drying out rapidly. Do an internet research, Peter, and inform yourself better before pressing the button! I also posted two threads recently on this topic.
And don't forget that the increase in population in Arab countries adds heavily to their need to act now for their future generations. That what today is sufficient for a population, might not be so in twenty years time when the population has doubled!
As for so-called Arab resentment towards Israel, I doubt that many Arabs feel the sort of brimstone fire that you suggest. Incidentally, if you studied a little about the West Bank, you might find that lack of water is a problem there for several decades.
The Palestinian population doubles about every thirty years, and may-be economic solutions to people's problems are more constructive than out-dated rethoric about Israel, which won't help us along either, here in Britain, with all our economic problems.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
18 February 2011
21:3993231I strongly advocate close economic ties with the Arab world. Only it won't happen in agriculture. We buy their oil, they buy our manufactured goods and our expertise (consulting, investment banking, etc.) and we invest in each others' stock markets. We buy land and property in each others' countries and we educate their students. Closer ties there are none.
'Leaving them alone' refers to not interfering with their political processes.
Lack of water in the West Bank is a problem because Israeli settlers take off far more than they are entitled to, leaving the Jordan river such a trickle that the Dead Sea is in danger of disappearing altogether. The last time I went to the Dead Sea Hotel near Jericho it was right on the water's edge. Now it is several hundred yards from the water's edge.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
18 February 2011
22:0093232That old adage of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer is always a good one.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 February 2011
22:1593233An interesting note here, Peter: Turkey, Syria and Irak have also had problems agreeing how much water each country can pump out of the Euphrates and the Tigris; Turkey seems to want to exploit the river sources to build a dam for electricity, while the Kurds, Syrians and Irakis all want to extract more water for agriculture.
I suppose it is hardly surprising that the Jordan also risks being exploited more than one would like, owing to the constant population increase of both Israelis and Palestinians. A million Arabs are Israeli citizens living in the State of Israel, so it does seem to be rather reciprocal and not just one-sided.
They all profit from the water that is exploited: Jews and Palestinians.
Yes, you mentioned investment/banking: I recall reading here and there about the financial debits of Dubai World, which seems to owe tens of billions of pounds to various creditors, including British banks. You can bet many British bankers are keeping their fingers crossed that the money comes back, as the debits of Dubai World have already been prolongued to prevent them from going bankrupt.
Being a state-owned concern, Dubai World's debts account for 80% of the national debit of the Arab Emirates, of which Dubai is a confederate member. Not exactly something to have sweet dreams over, Peter!
18 February 2011
22:2493234Alexander D,
I sincerely hope Peter is not advocating economic ties with the arab, although in reality I fear we have no choice but follow such an unfortunate course.
One really has to face up to reality when it comes to the middle east. All the arab countries have a strong dislike of each other.(Comes to that I am not to keen on the french!!) The only thing that resembles a sense of unity is there combined dislike of us in the western hemisphere.
They may have the oil but I am glad to say we in the west have the ability to develope our environment to the best possible advantage for us.
It would be foolish of us here to be jealous of the arab, despite there obvious affluance it it will only be there as long as there is a western brain to maintain and develop it. If that sounds pompous then so be it. Let any one name a great metropolus that was built by the arab without western technology.
Alec Sheldon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
18 February 2011
22:3593235How about Babylon Jimmy.?
18 February 2011
22:4293237Alec Sheldon,
Yes history tells us the arab built Babylon, but who did the planning?????
Alec Sheldon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
18 February 2011
23:1893242Not us, we were running around in sheepskins in those days.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 February 2011
23:2493243Alright, one topic at a time.
Peter, you mentioned agriculture in Yemen. Please google on internet: Yemen PM warns of deletion in water reserves.
It is a catastrophic account and a dire warning on the part of the Prime Minister of Yemen.
Here is just one quote from the short article:
"Yemeni Prime Minister Ali Muhammad al-Mujawar on Saturday warned of a "catastrophic" depletion of water reserve of his country, state news agency Saba reported."
If you read on, you will find that Yemen urgently needs modern infrastructure for water supplies. So my notions are far from wrong, when suggesting that here in Britain we could be stipulating agreements in trade and commerce with the Arab world.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 February 2011
23:2693244Jimmy, babylon was not built by the Arabs, but by the Sumerians and Chaldeans, possibly these latter, as the Sumerians lived further south in the Ur district, where Abraham came from.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
18 February 2011
23:2893245By the way, Jimmy, I am advocating strong economic ties with the Arabs.
