Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
It's happened over decades Brian
The system should not have been changed in the seventies, when the governments stopped,and restricted investment in training, and went for the cheaper option of importing staff
Doctors and nurses in the UK are paid more than any other Weston country
to day
We should not have a low standard third world NHS
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I've just watched that and am both saddened and disgusted.
Saddened that so much pressure was put on the doctors and nurses that they couldn't do their respective jobs properly and disgusted that the then Government were insisting on them becoming a Foundation Trust Hospital and cutting costs, over providing even basic patient care.
For Alan Johnson, the then Health Secretary, to offer such an apology, shows crass insensitivity and shifts (or tries to) the blame from the Government, who were setting the targets, on to the Hospital Management team, who were accepting those targets and ignoring the patients' needs.
Roger
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
We have relied on foreign medical staff for years, when I was young it was the West Indians now it is other nationalities, I doubt they are a worse standard than years ago. It would be interesting to know the ratio of office workers to medics in the poorly run establishments like Stafford,
When my husband was first taken into hospital in Gorlestone up in Norfolk he was put a critical ward for assessment.
We and the other patients hardly saw any medical staff because they were rushed off their feet trying to save a life at the other end of the ward. From what I saw at that hospital and now via the media there are simply not enough medical staff on the wards, especially at night to look after the sick.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
one spin off from importing doctors from the indian sub continent was that they were all invited over at the same time after qualification so inevitably they would all hit retirement age at the same time with no others trained up tp take their place.
this struck home in east london and south west essex at the turn of the millenium when it was realised that the vast majority of gp's were over retirement age and still having to practice.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I have not followed any of this all I can say both my wife and myself are geting the best care one could have,and this has been over the past five years.,and we both feel safe in their hands and geting the very best treatment and that goes for our own GP and nurseing staff.And I say to them thank you so much.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that will give scant comfort to the bereaved of stafford and other trusts that are left bereft over seeing their loved ones treated in so callous a manner.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i put it down to goverment,targets money saving exercise etc etc.no wonder paisants are getting a crap deal.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
roger
good cop out blame other govts
its down to this govt now
and those responsible should be charged
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
On Newsnight in the week there was a head to head between an activist and a professor. The latter went as far as to say that the word 'patient' was outmoded as it was derived from a word meaning, "one who suffers". How right he was...as far as the etymology goes anyway.
I did wonder what word he
really prefers...
"The word patient originally meant 'one who suffers'. This English noun comes from the Latin word patiens, the present participle of the deponent verb, patior, meaning 'I am suffering,' and akin to the Greek verb paskhein, (to suffer) and its cognate noun pathos." [1]
"consumer (n.)
early 15c., "one who squanders or wastes," [2]
"client (n.)
late 14c., from Anglo-French clyent (c.1300), from Latin clientem (nom. cliens) "follower, retainer," perhaps a variant of prp. of cluere "listen, follow, obey" [3]
"
customer (n.)
late 14c., "customs official;" later "buyer"" [4]
[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patients
[2]
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=consumer
[3]
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=client&allowed_in_frame=0
[4]
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=customer&allowed_in_frame=0Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
all very intellectual tom but how does this stop the human suffering of people in useless hospitals?
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Exactly Howard.
Yet the these are the arguments we hear from those as the forefront of Privatisation. I am sure this professor was not picked at random.
[I'll pop off and see if I can put names to those involved.]
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
We're talking about the problems at Stafford Hospital Keith and the main contributing reasons and those reasons were the pressure put on the Hospital Trust by the then Government not the current Government. I think the Hospital Trust should have fought stronger/harder against them, but for various reasons, they didn't.
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
your partly correct roger
this govt has had/still has time to rectify the problem
but has chosen not to
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
with all due respect to roger and keith who will always take party positions on major issues this sorry tale is about one hospital trust and probably a few others still to be identified that have clearly let their patients down down in a big way.
the issue deserves better than political point scoring.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Howard it doesn't matter which party is in charge, the NHS is so large it's ungovernable. The trust structure has merely created impenetrable fiefdoms and there is a shocking lack of accountability. The system stinks from the top down. The sacred cow needs to be killed.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
With one quarter of British youth going to university and one forth signing on, let us hope that from the One Quarter that are studying at university we will manage to get a generation of British medical staff.
As long as there's One Hundred practicing British medical staff we still have hope...
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
I didn't watch the programme (It's BBC so it's bound to bias in one way or another regardless of their charter) but it's obvious to Me that the NHS is unsustainable. Period, as the Americans say.
A great Utopian idea but a model which relies on a country being in profit or growing their economy if you like.
We are not growing economically. On the contrary We are a steadily shrinking economy. Worse than that our economy is shrinking at an alarming rate. It's totally and utterly unsustainable.
People get their knickers in a twist because of the closure of a library here, a sports centre there.
Isn't everyone waking up to what is staring them in the face?
There is no money.
We borrow more than We can afford to pay back. The deficit is growing, despite of the government's promise to bring it down and the national debt is absolutely vast.
It's pure fantasy to suggest that the NHS will remain the same as it was when it was first invented.
In fact when it was a baby one of the first things thousands did was to get their teeth extracted so they could have dentures for free.
Multiply that a thousand times, what with people demanding their right to gastric bands, cosmetic surgery and even paracetamol on prescription regardless of the fact that you can buy the same in a supermarket for 30 pence, forget the casualties who appear on a regular basis after fight club on a Saturday night, one must see that at some point the whole thing will collapse.
Add to that the vast amounts of money wasted by way of gerrymandering by successive governments whose sole aim is re-election and We have a recipe for the demise of the NHS as We know it.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
The NHS is cheap! Cheap and affordable.
The value of the National Health Service is never likely to be something that can be pinned down at any given time.
Perhaps I should have said 'worth' rather than 'value', as it's greatest value is in kicking it. It's supposed vastness is a real gift to it's detractors. It's a bit like the the guy at the race track that sells 'certs' to mug punters by putting the names of all the horses in a race into separate envelopes. Somebody will be on the winner, and that somebody will come back for more, and there never has been a shortage of mug-punters.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:with all due respect to roger and keith who will always take party positions on major issues this sorry tale is about one hospital trust and probably a few others still to be identified that have clearly let their patients down down in a big way.
the issue deserves better than political point scoring.
Come off it Howard, never waste a chance to score political points, even if it involves thousands dying in hospital.
The triballists are too busy blaming each other to resolve anything
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
"The triballists are too busy blaming each other to resolve anything"
Hear, hear!
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.