23 September 2010
15:5472123These clearly inadequately punished cases do not mean we would be justified in simply beating up all crims! It is worth remembering that politicians of all colours over timehave fiddled with the justice system and simply made the muddle worse, filing down the teeth to the point where "justice" is impossible. Proper re-construction work is needed on the poor old system and a real, honest, unprejudiced look at what would actually reduce crime rather than pander to the tabloid-ers. Advocating a slap for n'er do wells is one thing, but it is quite another to create a system that actually delivers the reduction in crime we all want.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
23 September 2010
17:1472128Bern - some people understand just one thing. They need a whole lot of pain and humiliation adminstered to them to bring them to even the most superfiscal a semblance of a decent human being.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
23 September 2010
19:3472141Bern of course this is more complicated than the "hang em or flog em" brigade would like to think.
Of course we need to understand why many young people get lured into criminality, we need to differentiate between nuisance/yobbishness and more serious crimes etc. However, at the same time the law abiding majority should not have had to abandon the streets of many of our towns after dark, or feel harassed by nuisance even in their own homes etc. this has got to stop and stop now. The longer the establishment takes to deal with the ever growing problem of nuisance and yobbish behaviour the greater the likelihood that vigilantism will come to the fore - something none of us want to see.
Yes we need to engage youth before they drift into criminality, we need to get them engaged at school, inculcate a desire to get qualified and to find work, create apprenticeship/trade/skills learning opportunities to give them alternatives.
Adult repeat offenders are a totally different proposition and frankly removing their freedom for longer and longer periods is the only sensible response
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
23 September 2010
19:4072143But it doesn't work!!! I am entirely with you, except for the bit where we just lock people up! Some need to be put away forever - my experience is that paedophiles, most sex offenders and some violent offenders will not respond and are too much of a risk. But they are a small minority. I am not "soft", I am pragmatic. If it worked I would condone violence, I would condone a chemical remedy whatever the consequences, but if we really, genuinely want to reduce crime and re-offending we need to actually see what really works and support those third sector groups who can make a difference.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
23 September 2010
19:4372147BERN;
i HOPE I.D.S. gets some plans forward and the ideas are not wasted like those of F Field
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
23 September 2010
20:0272154Bern I am fully aware the a retributive penal system (e.g. as seen in the US) has zero impact in reducing re-offending rates or overall levels of crime.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
23 September 2010
20:2272169If it did, I would be among the first to support it!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
23 September 2010
20:2572170For decades now softer alternatives have been tried and failed miserably. Yet some refuse to learn the lesson.
Time to learn - get that big stick out.
23 September 2010
20:3872175Intelligent isn't the same as soft! Just because it doesn't leave a bruise doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
24 September 2010
05:0372217Define 'intelligent' Bern - if it dont work its not so intelligent is it? As I say some only really understand a spot of pain and humiliation and that we need to get back into the system.
24 September 2010
06:3972218That's the point.........we are not applying intelligence at the moment, just knee jerk responses to various pressures, the media, public and often ill-informed outcries, political trends. To work it would take a consistent, itelligent, sometimes unpalatable approach, but one that would deliver the outcome we all want: reducued re-offending rates.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
24 September 2010
06:5972224I think its a case of going right back to pre school area, start to re build relationships between police and public.
regular visits to pre schools/schools
start to get respect from both sides.
This is already happening in a number of places but needs to be ongoing .
Its tochange the face of society.
Over time it will work, the police will regain respecxt.
Changing legislation so that police/teachers/parents are ab;le to contrrol situations, unlike now wherfe ll professions run in fear of being taken to court if they as much as touch a child.
Get police into youth clubs and whrever else the youth go, getting involved.
This is the start of a way forward
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
24 September 2010
09:0372234couldn't agree more with you post keith, most errant teenagers and young people are the result of slack parenting and lack of discipline in schools.
24 September 2010
09:3072243As a parent with clear ideas about discipline and support I need to point out that it is increasingly challenging to fulfil sanctions and disipline when there is so much to undermine it "out there". Schools sway one way and another being over-zealous in the areas they are allowed to police and failing totally in the areas meddled with by trendies; police ditto when they can be arsed; peer pressure and support is viscious; the media - and yes I will put some blame there - swamp impressionable kids with violent and sexualised images in the name of profit with no thought or care about consequences. Parenting is littered with ever-increasing pitfalls and the vigilant or scrupulous parent who gives a damn can be cowed by the mooing of others who say it is always poor parenting to blame. Having said that there is some shockingly poor parenting out there!!!!!!!!