Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
21 September 2010
21:2671915#1
Having started the debate on benefits and noticed Sid didn't post, I hope the reason is that he's busy and will contribute later.
Heres another subject Barryw/me/Sid probably agree in parts on
PRISON;
.
We need to review the use of our prison's.
Those committing more minor offences should be given community work
but those sent down for lengthy sentences, should serve all that time, not let out on parole for being good.
Prison's should be a place no one wants to go, the very limited facilities possible
And run like the boot camp.
Peoople should fear going to prison, rather than it being part of a life.
Life should mean life
there fo starters
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 September 2010
21:3171919#2
No argument there - make them tough and nasty. We need longer sentences too.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
21 September 2010
21:3471920#3
I do agree BAZ
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 September 2010
21:5071924#4
keith
this grovelling to blue barry has to stop.
are you really determined to join multi coloured ken?
the blues are defecting nationally whilst here in dover the positions are reversed.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
21 September 2010
21:5171925#5
HOWARD
There are loads of issues that BARRYW and I differ big time.
I'm just showing that even though we disagree on many issues
there are some even we can agree on!!!!!!!!!
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 September 2010
21:5771927#6
keith
this is all sounding rather like appeasement, didn't work for chamberlain.
what happened to the urban warrior of priory?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
21 September 2010
22:0471929#7
HOWARD;
Theres nowt wrong with agreement when that can be achieved.
I think i told you in a previous post when all 3 parties were meeting i was talking to paul watkins over a cup of tea.
I went into the labour group meeting a few minutes late where by eileei rowbotham a labour cllr at the time inturrupted meeting by saying,
" do you all know keith's been talking to p watkins?"
I replied and so what?
and i will do the same again, and i speak all the time to labour/tory/lib dem/indy every day of the week
is it a crime?
no its not, and so i will continue to do so.
I popped into the council offices yesterday and spoke with a tory cllr who i got on realy well with over many years.
Iv worked closely with many cllrs from all parties and can see no prob with that
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 September 2010
22:0971933#8
fair comment keith, just one question though, when you had a cup of tea with paul watkins, who paid?
i am not suggesting anything untoward but reputations of tight waddedness go a long way.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
21 September 2010
22:2071935#9
No a cup of tea and a bicky in the kitchen
I brought tories a cup of tea and why not lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
21 September 2010
23:0371937#10
I think we need to consider
Everyone is allowed one mistake
Getting caught and convicted of the same offence more than once is stupidity and more than a coincidence
Getting caught a third time suggests a pattern of behaviour
Consequently, I am of the view that we
a) do not allow remission of a sentence that would take time served below the minimum sentence for the crime one has been convicted of
b) change the sentencing guidelines so that crimes against the person carry a higher tariff than crimes against property
c) have a doubling of sentence for each repeat offence from the second conviction onwards - they will either learn or they will spend and awfully long time in prison
d) finally life should mean exactly that
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
22 September 2010
07:2971942#11
ROSS
Agree with most of what you say
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
22 September 2010
08:1171948#12
It never ceases to amaze me how many people speak from ignorance having never visited prison,worked in prison or indeed been to prison.They spout forth the lock 'em and throw away the key rubbish that is printed by the likes of the well known rags like the Mail and the Sun.Two newspapers,if that is one can call them,whose main interest is selling advertising space by appealing to the unlearned masses who love nothing better than comparing a sporting event like an England versus Germany football match as though it was some great battle from the WW2.Jingoistic rubbish.
If any of you " brng back the stocks in the market square" brigade want to know what prison is really like than do something constructive and become a prison visitor on the Board. Experience first hand entering an establishment,even as a visitor,and being searched and the doors locked in front and behind you with no control over the keys.Ask to be placed in a locked cell for 23 hours a day with some drug fuelled stranger. Then tell me that prison is soft and easy.
Barryw who refers to me as being a do-gooder ( as if that were some sort of cardinal sin),loony leftie or even stupid wouldn't last 5 minutes never mind 5 hours inside.
Yes there are ways to improve the system but locking them up,bringing back capital and or corporal punishment or forgetting about the offenders is not the way forward or the way to improve our damaged and fragile society.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
22 September 2010
08:2371950#13
You have associated those titles to yourself, Marek. I actually said in one post on another thread that I dont think you are stupid.
Being a 'do-gooder' as you put it, I didnt, is indeed a cardinal sin. It is the wooly headed thinking of the 'do-gooder' brigade that has made our society so fragile as you put it. The experiment of being soft on crime has not worked. Time to change direction.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
22 September 2010
09:0471959#14
MAREK;
I draw the line at HANGING I will never support taking some ones life in that manner.
But I do feel if you are guilty of offending then you pay the price for that.
I'm aware of a person who didnt fear prison in fact it was a way of life from age of 7 to his present age about 60
most in prison.
Probably prison didnt help him at all, but also if theres no fear of going there then is it a punisment?
I think everyone agrees we need to look at those who commit the bigger offences and how to deal with them.
With prisons overcrowded we need to look at the sentencing of minor offences.
Prison should be a place to fear.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
22 September 2010
22:0172059#15
I think minor non violent offences should be dealt with through community pay back schemes, however as I stated in #10C it is the repeat offenders (i.e. habitual/career criminals) we need to crack down on.
I equally still believe in the underlying principle of our penal system of rehabilitation (not retribution per the US Penal system) and all people on custodial sentences should be obliged to undertake training/education in return for privileges.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
22 September 2010
22:0872064#16
the problem ross is that we do not crack down on the minor offenders early enough, just content to convict them.
there are endless tales of feckless youth gaining self respect from working as part of a team on a community project and even carrying on once the sentence has been completed.
having said that if they continue to offend i would go along with blue barry's thumb screws followed by crucifixion.
23 September 2010
08:4272087#17
Marek - it was good to scroll down this page and finally reach the voice of reason in your post!! Offending is much more complex than Mail and Sun readers (I use the term loosely) seem to think. If it were as easy as throwing away the key we wouldn't have so many re-offenders. It really matters that we move past the understandable need for vengeance to see what we need to do to actually achieve reduction of re-offending. Punishment is ok, and has its place - even the most woolly minded sandal wearing muesli chomper can see that! - but it isn't the only factor that will move towards that reduction in crime. The knee jerk reactions of most people simply don't help and don't work. There are people out there, some of whom I know, who are very skilled at doing what they do and achieve results, but because their approach doesn't appease the majority tabloid voters they struggle to get funding - a real waste and a shame, because they could really impact on crime reduction in the long term. The kind of ignorance-based opinions aired on soem forums like this do not help - if we really want to reduce re-offending and not just spout off and feel superior we need to actually think and listen.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
23 September 2010
09:3472096#18
This forum BERN hopefully gets us all thinking, Im one open to debate that thats why i posted it in the first place.
We won';t all agree on every aspect, but something needs to change
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
23 September 2010
09:5072099#19
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
23 September 2010
15:2172118#20
The Evening Standard (from a Coffee house report) reported an incident that tells us just how soft and out of touch our discredited so called Criminal Justice systen is. Read on...
""""""""" 'At Finsbury Park station Ali, who had drunk a bottle of Jack Daniel's whiskey in Trafalgar Square with Jamil that night, aimed a punch at Mr Sanson over his girlfriend's shoulder. Miss Le Doussal turned around to ask what was going on, only for Ali to punch her in the face, leaving her with a black eye.
Fellow passenger Daniel Hurley stepped in to remonstrate but as the argument spilled out onto the platform, Jamil punched him in the temple, knocking him to the floor. Jamil then aimed a kick at his head, while Ali kicked him in the legs. Mr Hurley later received hospital treatment before being released."
The court also heard that a witness had heard Jamil say, 'Is he dead? I'm glad he's dead?' as station staff went to help one of the victims.'""""""""
So what happened to these two 19 year old thugs, they have been given a suspended sentence, a curfew and community service.
Utterly pathetic.
Now I admit, for me an A frame set up in Trafalgar Square with a burly Bosun handing out 50 lashes with a cat 'o nine tails would be the way to go, but even in these soft days a year or two in prison on bread and water should be the least we can expect.
