howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 January 2011
21:1190254rather than sack him a more appropriate punishment mighty have been 6 months community service with the womens institute.
26 weeks of making jam and chutney would have straightened him out.
not sure whether the ladies would have appreciated him singing "jerusalem" in his guttural glaswegian tones though.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
25 January 2011
21:1590259howard,you are getting soft in your old age,sasanacks anonamuss would have been better idea.
26 January 2011
00:0090285He was wrong to make the remarks, but it would be interesting to know who recorded these " private remarks " and passed them on.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 January 2011
07:4890292Perfectly harmless laddish behaviour Bern - nothing wrong with that....
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
26 January 2011
08:2490299We should not try to control people's thoughts or record casual comments; we should certainly not record them to sell off to someone else for a story about them.
That's like having a chat with a friend in a pub and someone else there is listening and recording what you're saying and if they don't like it, or think they can make (even political) capital out of it, they go and sell it to the Express (hopefully they wouldn't buy that sneaky story - would you Kathy ?).
Roger
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
26 January 2011
08:4790302Yes some of the other stuff that has emerged since is certainly a bit unsavoury and Pauline makes a good point there, maybe someone somewhere wanted to get rid of him. Neverthless he worked for them (Sky) for 20 years ( was paid £2million pound a year as well..gulp! not too shabby).
Reminds me in a way of the comic Jim Davidson situation. Does anyone remember him on Hells Kitchen, he caused uproar about gays and women at the time, about three or four years ago...his career went south afterwards. Must be politically correct nowadays or the wilderness beckons.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 January 2011
09:1890305Not me PaulB - you wont catch me pandering to the thought police of political correctness. I detest and despise pc and will not allow them to destroy my freedom of speech.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
26 January 2011
09:2190307Noticed that the young lady in question responded to the remarks by posting pictures of herself out partying on her facebook profile. Mountains and molehills spring to mind. (Who will be first to make a sexist remark out of that?)
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
26 January 2011
09:2390308re #24 maybe if it was in the privacy of their own homes, but broadcast on a national TV channel ... NO
re #27 freedom of speech does not include the right to insult, offend and denigrate a whole gender does it?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 January 2011
09:4590309Yes it does Ross but whether you should or should not do it is another matter.
The fact is that the 'broadcast' was from a mike left switched on, it was not deliberately done. I have often bantered in a similar way and will always do so! I have also 'pulled the leg' of other people on many a subject.
The fact is some people need to get a life and stop looking to find offense at every excuse. If you are offended by something, so what, you just have to get over it.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
26 January 2011
11:0190318------------------ I like Howard's comments:
""rather than sack him a more appropriate punishment mighty have been 6 months community service with the womens institute.
26 weeks of making jam and chutney would have straightened him out.
not sure whether the ladies would have appreciated him singing "jerusalem" in his guttural glaswegian tones though.""
---------------- ... BUT the WI are not now all Jam and Jerusalem. ... some WIs do calendars .... (we haven't done this yet!)
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
26 January 2011
11:1290320I agree it is a storm in a tea cup but it is now being blown up that football is sexist. No matter if you like the game or not, football as a sport is no more sexist than many other sports. I cannot remember ever seeing female officials in senior male rugby or cricket games for instance, so maybe football is slowly leading the way in the same way as they did when the first colored players started playing the game and that has been a long haul in trying to get equality.
Sexist banter in the work place has always been there and probably always will be, but there has to be a line between banter and outright extreme sexist remarks that offend such as Grays remarks to another female member of the TV staff.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 January 2011
13:0790329I have just read Graeme Archer's comments and In agree with him 100%
I quote:
"The wretched case over a B&B in Cornwall; Baroness Warsi's view of dinner party conversations about Islam; football commentators being caught discussing the sporting and aesthetic merits of a female linesman. Religion vs sexuality; Muslim vs non-Muslim; men vs women: three cases that highlight the outcome of an adherence to the Left's politics of identity. In no case has the application of a law increased human happiness. Identity politics, indeed, lead not to greater understanding of common problems, but to greater distance between the groups 'protected' by the laws."
Graeme then added a post-script to his article and that is worth reading to demonstrate the whole absurdity of all this:
"On Tuesday evening I read another story, about a squash club in Camden that has received a taxpayer grant of thousands of pounds to expand access to the lesbian 'community'. What on earth are these people thinking? Is there some sort of Twilight Zone plot afoot to make gay people look ridiculous? People everywhere are losing their jobs, but a quango thinks a good use of our money is to establish squash as a game that requires separation between players of differing sexual identities?"
Incidentally - Graeme is homosexual.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 January 2011
18:2890354there is a widely held view that gray's dismissal is more about him sueing "the news of the world" over his phone being hacked than his comments about the lineperson.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
26 January 2011
19:1890355I was of the opinion he was sacked more for his other suggestive sexual remarks to a fellow female presenter by asking her if she wanted to help push something down inside his trousers while he tucked himself in and it is also alleged he made other sexual remarks to female staff.
Yes it all does go on in the work place but there have been many sacked for suggestive remarks and many tribunals who have found in favour of those who have complained of such behaviour.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
27 January 2011
08:3690374As we have seen now Richard Keys has fallen on his sword...he cant go on without Andy Gray! Keys made several profuse apologies but nevertheless the damage was done.
But woe woe and thrice woe, the level of fallout for what initially anyway seemed inocuous if not very nice, has been huge. The media and the nation go berserk with stuff like this now...and yes we all like to think we can say what we like using the freedom of speech angle, because now we clearly cant if it upsets others and particularly if it upsets others on a grand scale.
We have had a whole string of these public affronts now..Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross was another example...
Its a new era. In the old days employees of 20 years standing would have clearly gotten away with stuff like this. The would have been given a standard warning or a chastisement but not any more.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
27 January 2011
09:1590375I am suprised that this is still making the news this morning.
Paul, in the old days we did not have women in football and women were expected to put up with crude sexism. I am glad things have chenged although I have never had a problem some women and men have had a terrible time.
Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross would have been sacked straight away but they would not have been employed in the first place if they behaved like that. Comics? that are now very crude are just not funny.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
27 January 2011
10:2990377A whole pile of recordings of Keyes making sexist remarks have 'suddenly' come to light. As for 'dark forces' at play the only dark forces were their unhumourous crass remarks. It's not about PC but can you imagine the fallout if these remarks had been made towards another ethnic group?
Sky is broadcast and enters families homes and if young children watching their favourite footy team are subjected to those type of comments they could well go on and repeat them thinking if they can say it on Tv it must be OK so I can also say it.TV has a responsible role to play. Gray and Keyes had to go.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
27 January 2011
10:5890381I think this whole saga has got out of hand My understanding from press reports and you cannot always believe what is written,the young lady refree did not lodge a complaint .
In my younger days I worked for the GPO at a training centre in Slough. the centre was in the main telephone exchange .It was a normal accurence that telephone engineers would gather at the base of the open stairs whilst females were walking up the stairs .In thpose days we did not wear trousers but very full skirts and high heels .I was often locked in a cupboard by male collegues not for long i might add .My name of Sue was gained as I wore Suzy Wong dresses with long slits in the skirt
When I worked at the local telephone exchange here in Dover it often happened that you found yoursel;f being squeezes past in the lift .
It has always gone on . The kind of remarks I find offensive are the ones like Vic makes when he calls me Stand in Chairman .He diminishes the role .
When I was an Instructor I used to say to my students you respect my position .
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
27 January 2011
13:0390386Lack of respect often triggers sexist remarks - The perpetrator no doubt does this to make themselves feel good but it just makes him or her appear ignorant and rude.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
