Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
If you can afford the petrol...........toll roads are enroute..................
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
I was thinking along the same lines Reg and going to tackle this topic....
Ask not for whom the road tolls...it tolls for thee!!
Yes just when you thought nothing further could possibly be privatised, up popped this one yesterday. As is the style of the current government, it is floated in the media first to see what level of uproar the idea achieves. To me this is a chronically awful move. I dont understand it, they are flogging the motorist to within one inch of his/her life already and now this ugly possiblilty is looming on the horizon.
The government say it is not tolling, the newspapers say it is tolling...the idea is in a state of bewilderment at the moment yet to be made clear.
However.... the idea is to get private companies to build new roads, or indeed to widen existing roads..and so on. Now, these private companies have to make a return on their considerable investment because as we all know road building is hugely expensive...so how do they get a return? Well easy..it's simple straightforward economics, they must charge you the motorist to use their piece of new road.
This applies, according to the young reporter on Radio 4, to road widening and so on...so there could be great chunks of existing roads on the existing network that could end up being tolled. A frightening prospect. Not only is the nation hamstrung by enormous petrol costs, ever increasing insurance levels, murderous parking charges and whathaveyou, now we have this looming towards us like the juggernaut from hell.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I'll wait till I hear more officially from the Government about it; I must be honest though, that was my first thought - that roads would eventually become toll-roads.
Where's me bike ??
Roger
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
The same argument that is being currently made re the 50p tax rate could be made here. Charge people more and you get less tax. This is the line being spouted in support of abolishing the 50p tax rate and lowering it. Talking head John Redwood was on all TV stations yesterday stating the very simple soundbite..."Tax people less" said he "and they will stay here, not try to avoid tax and therefore more money will reach the Treasury"
A rather dubious synopsis there I would have thought from dear ould John..but heavens best not to go into the pros and cons of the 50p tax rate again, but..but the same principle could apply to the motorist could it not?
Tax the already flogged motorist into the higher echelons and he will use his car less, thereby producing less revenue for the treasury. Lower all taxes and he will use his car more...I'm only quoting the current Conservative line!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Seems a very sensible idea. It is not turning existing roads into toll roads but only new major roads and 'toll lanes' on existing heavily used road.
It is nothing new either - this idea was floated and actively discussed during the last government.
Given the way the public finances have been destroyed by the last government this is one way to 'keep Britain moving' without adding to public spending.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
PaulB - John Redwood was 100% right we have the experience of what has been happening here and in other countries, it is not some theory but factual.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
and thus making more misery for the moterist,with hold ups and jams/bottlenecks.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
But what about the current topical point in relation to the tolls though BarryW...if we tax the motorist more, wont the same idea apply as applies with the 50p tax argument. People will use their cars less ..equals less revenue to the Treasury. I'm using the John Redwood argument here? as per post 4.
Not only that but I cant see it as a growth move at all. It is the opposite surely..hamstrunging growth. The parralels betwen the two arguments are deadly similar.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
People have choice, PaulB - to use the toll road or the other roads. In the same way wealthier people have choice over tax. Most suffering the penal 50p rate can choose to avoid it through a number of ways, not necessarily by moving abroad though some will.
I use Dartford Crossing almost every day, twice a day. It is a nightmare. I don't have a choice if I want to get to where I need to go. Being charged for a very very very poor service is an insult.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
Well some very differing views already, but some interesting ones.
In the past the conservatives have been very pro car and had problems of support for public transport.
This latest move will not help them.
Of course it will again as BERN says come down to, having to pay as there isn't an alternative, but the argument is, do you think it's right?
Road tools continue to get raised at both a local and national level, and often dropped just as quick.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
This can only be the first step of the Great Equalisation. Soon, how tax is paid shall change for us all.
A move to be overseen by the Grand Revenue Acquisition Bureaux.
PAYE has had it's chips to be replaced by Pay As You Drive Independent Revenue Trust. The wholesale privatisation of taxation.
Should a greater need arise for income;war, royal wedding/funeral. A rise in train fares is bound to bring the errant motorist around. It's win-win.
As a gimmicky piece of light-relief a scheme could be introduced similar to 'Air Miles' whereby a motorist could
'earn' himself a long drive along a short pier?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Yes, choice. The delusional argument for privatising EVERYTHING.
The only choice really being who will rip you off the least. Capitalists call this ripping off scale 'value for money'
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Value for money is actually our friend. What isn't our friend is, as DT1 points out, using "choice" as a reason to privatise. Most people with the NHS, for example, don't want to have to choose between hospitals, they just want a good hospital near to where they live, delivering a good healthcare system. In order to get that we have to have value for money across the services so that we actually have the money to spend where it is needed. Peter has pointed out on another thread about the ditz in the whites fagging it on our time - that is exactly what needs to be rooted out and value for money obtained.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Choice is not the reason. The need for more road building is, road building that cannot be paid for from stretched public finances,.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
agreed bern
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
It won't reduce the traffic, it will just take alternative routes to avoid the toll causing additional traffic jams on minor roads, increases in fuel use and CO2 emissions!!
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 2.....``nothing further could possibly be privatised``.......``Flashman has asked Two Brains Willett to draft a policy
to privatise the air we breath.Olly has chimed in with ``no you cannot do that,the general public can only afford to
breath every other day,which means I lose my goose that lays the golden egg which is the lucre paying the deficit
off.....I will then have to close all the loop holes the rich use to avoid paying tax.Then we have the problem the finance
johnnies have no work,we then have to bail them out or put them on benefits where they will find out what we have
been telling them about benefits for years is a load of old cobblers................fkn...........
