Public Debt and Interest

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• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     01:01190963
  #1       report
  Britain's Public Debt is the amount in money the State owes to purchasers of UK bonds and gilts.
  
  According to the Office for National Statistics, at the end of July 2012, the official Public Debt stood at 1 trillion and 32 billion pounds (£1.032 billion). This figure is equivalent to 65% of GDP (Gross Domestic Product).
  
  However, if all financial sector intervention is calculated, such as the bailouts of the Royal Bank of Scotland, Lloyds Bank and Northern Rock to give just a few examples, the Public Debt is more than double this figure, namely 2 trillion and 311 billion pounds (£2.311 billion), equivalent to 147% of GDP.
  
  Since May 2010, the official Public Debt has risen by £150 billion.
  
  The cost of the Public Debt is the interest the State pays on the bonds and gilts it sells. In 2011, the Public Debt interest payments were £48.6 billion.
  
  It is generally accepted by economic analysts that Britain's official Public Debt (currently 65% of GDP) could reach the equivalent of 100% of GDP by the year 2015.
  
  The amount of money saved through spending cuts in 2011 was inferior to the increased cost of interest payments to service the Public Debt in the same year.
  
  The conclusion is that, all the spending cuts the Government is introducing, are not even enough to cover the INTEREST on the official Public Debt.
  
  To use a round and approximate figure, we the Public are paying around £50 billion a year on interest on the Public Debt. The Public Debt is increasing rapidly, and so too will the interest we all pay on this Debt.
  
  This post has been composed based on extensive research with the aim of presenting economic facts on Britain's Public Debt.
  
  Question: does anyone on the Forum believe Britain is on the road to economic recovery?
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
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• Guest 655

  • Registered: 13 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 10,247
  12 September 2012     07:41190975
  #2       report
  Alexander - you really should credit the source from which you copy and paste.
  
  That said your source has seriously understated the level of public debt ignoring Brown's off balance sheet debt and public sector pension liabilities that can add another £trillion to the total at least.
  
  I have been saying for a long time that not enough has been done to cut public spending fast or deeply enough. I have also been saying that not enough has been done to boost growth in the real economy by chopping red tape and cutting certain damaging taxes on corporate and personal income.
  
  But the economy is more than just the debt and the deficit that is increasing debt at an alarming rate. These are only part of the story, an important one, but only part.
  
  It is also about how well our wealth producing companies are doing, about exports, about employment, about production, new markets etc etc. Fortunately there has been a lot of good news on these fronts as I have said elsewhere.
• Guest 716

  • Registered: 9 Jun 2011
  • Posts: 4,010
  12 September 2012     08:45190982
  #3       report
  Once again forget all the gobbledygook...............Cameron boasts ``we``have paid
  
  25 % off the ``Deficit``.........however our ``debt``has increased.........
  
  no need to `define`debt......Joe Public already knows........
• Guest 655

  • Registered: 13 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 10,247
  12 September 2012     09:01190987
  #4       report
  Pathetic post there Reg.
  
  Of course the debt has increased and it will keep on increasing all the while there is a deficit. For you, someone who is always attacking the public spending cuts, to complain about the debt and deficit is a bit rich to put it politely. There is another word for it and I am not thinking of opportunism.
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     13:25191031
  #5       report
  Barry, I haven't copied and pasted anything in my article.
  Is this one of your usual attempts to ridicule other people's knowledge and research on anything to do with economy?
  
  Generally your post 2 seems a parody of the facts: that Britain's economy, as it stands now, is doomed to go down the road of ever-increasing State Bankruptcy.
  That we are not on a road to economic recovery.
  
  Although I will give it you that you expressed your personal view to my question in post 1, it still doesn't entitle you to state that I am a robot who copied and pasted phrases and who doesn't really understand anything.
  Assuming this is what you were implying.
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 655

  • Registered: 13 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 10,247
  12 September 2012     13:28191033
  #6       report
  Alexander- you ridicule your own knowledge of the economy frequently when you post about it.
  
  I was not implying anything in my post, I just said what I did.
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     13:33191034
  #7       report
  Post 3:
  Reg has rightly noted that, while the deficit may seem to be reduced, the actual overall debt has gone up exponentially.
  
  So with all these spending cuts, we are in reality running against a brick wall, heading towards a situation such as that in Greece. Just a matter of time before we get there, as things stand now.
  
  Austerity destroying Britain, and yet the Public Debt just going up all the more.
  And we pay each year £50 billion pounds on the interest, tendency increasing.
  
  Where does this £50 billion come from anyway? We the Public pay it.
  So we are all being ripped off, and have austerity inflicted upon us on top of it!
  
  Except, of-course, those who profiteer always, even from a Nation's misery...
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     13:35191035
  #8       report
  Barry, my view on your posts on economy is that it is one ridicule of all common people!
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 655

  • Registered: 13 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 10,247
  12 September 2012     13:50191040
  #9       report
  Demonstrating your own lack of understanding again Alexander.
  
  Debts will always rise while there is a deficit, a deficit creates debt like spending on a credit card day in day out without clearing down the capital added to it.
  
  Reducing a deficit by 25% is not enough you would need to reduce it 100% to stop more debt piling up and 101% to start repaying debt.
  
  Excessive government spending is the problem and it must be cut faster and deeper while adopting policies to boost growth, as I have said.
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     15:15191054
  #10       report
  Cutting faster and deeper into public spending is not the solution, Barry.
  
  The problem I have been outlining, which you quite clearly are pretending does not exist as you categorically ignore it - is that we as a Country are spending, currently, £50 billion in interest each year to pay for the Public Debt!
  And this figure will go up all the time as the situation stands now.
  
  The Government has to drastically reduce the Public Debt in order to significantly reduce the interest we all pay on it.
  
  At present, we are paying over three times more on interest on the Public Debt than we are paying to the EU. This is one of the facts that UKIP has failed to see and mention! And likewise, all parties are seemingly ignoring this huge expenditure that we all pay in tax every year.
  
  It is not a "lack of understanding" on my part which I am demonstrating!
  
  By 2015, unless the Government changes policy. we will be paying about £75 billion a year on interest on the Debt.
  We are heading along the road to the situation Greece has reached.
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 655

  • Registered: 13 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 10,247
  12 September 2012     15:53191071
  #11       report
  You have no solutions Alexander. The only 'solutions' you have suggested are based on a fantasy about private wealth and on the assumption that there would be no consequences in respect of the State stealing such assets.
  
  You might also try understanding what more knowledgeable people have been trying to explain to you.
• Guest 703

  • Registered: 30 Jul 2010
  • Posts: 2,096
  12 September 2012     15:59191072
  #12       report
  Alexander,
  
  On another thread when I asked you a direct question you replied 'let's not go round in circles' then proceeded to do just that, and here you are doing exactly the same again.
  
  You say we must reduce the debt but the only way to do that is to pay it off (unless you can magic up another way of doing it); you can only reduce it overall by getting rid of the deficit as Barry has endlessly explained to you so that the country has a surplus each year to pay off the debt - just as with personal finances the only way to get into that situation is to earn more and spend less.
  
  So how is cutting public spending (and I'm not unaware of the problems that can bring) not part of the solution?
  
  By the way, in my late career I regularly had to hunt out plagiarism, either with software or directly - the contrast in writing style between your post #1 and your normal style of writing would have been an immediate indicator to me to look more closely
• Guest 655

  • Registered: 13 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 10,247
  12 September 2012     16:43191077
  #13       report
  Exactly Ray.
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     17:50191088
  #14       report
  Ray!
  In the past I have had disputes with you over wrong claims of yours concerning my posts on internet, and in each case proved you wrong.
  This time too:
  
  I am light-years ahead of you in all things concerning knowledge of internet page-ranking. Quite clearly you have no knowledge of simple verification methods to detect online plagiarism, of which you accuse me.
  
  If you want to examine whether an online text is plagiarised, just copy a line of the text, paste it on the internet search engine (Google, Yahoo or whichever), and the original text will always come up first. The plagiarised text will never come up first, as the crawl spiders of search engines are designed to detect plagiarism.
  
  So if you copy any individual line in my post 1, and paste it into the search bracket of Google or Bing or any other search engine, you will see that the first result to come up, at the top of page 1, is Dover Forum, with the post that is on this very thread.
  
  This is proof that my post 1 is original!!
  
  Had it been plagiarised, the original online text to come up on the top of page 1 would be the one I had plagiarised it from. that is, IF I had plagiarised!
  
  So please do the test, you can repeat it with any phrase I have written in post 1, and each time you will see that the original text to come up is, yes you've guessed it, Dover Forum and this thread!
  
  Quite obviously nothing plagiarised there, then!
  
  As any reader on the Forum can try it out, and see that your plagiarism accusation is false, hope you get red ears, Ray, for being found out as a fibber
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 703

  • Registered: 30 Jul 2010
  • Posts: 2,096
  12 September 2012     18:12191097
  #15       report
  No fibbing Alexander, just saying that if I was seriously looking at what you had written I would do exactly those tests you suggest, and more, based on the difference in style between your first post and your regular ramblings. Of course if you have got down to writing something serious in a different style and if I hadn't already looked at this webpage with those phrases then it wouldn't come up. Lots of 'ifs'
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     18:18191099
  #16       report
  Ray, post 1 is not a personal opinion, it is the result of a fact-finding research, to present facts to the readers. So its style is different to my comments further down the thread, or on other threads, which are personal views.
  
  Post 1 is not a personal view, and being based on researched facts, is supposed to present a topic for readers to present their own views, such as answering the question in post 1, whether they think Britain is on the road to economic recovery.
  
  As for the verification test, Ray, just do it and be reconciled that there is no plalgiarism in my posts. I never plagiarise!
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 703

  • Registered: 30 Jul 2010
  • Posts: 2,096
  12 September 2012     19:14191125
  #17       report
  Fine Alexander, I'll take your word for it.
  
  All I've said is that based on the difference in style from your regular posts (commented on also by Barry) I would have had suspicions if reading this professionally; I would then have done investigations (not using Google or Bing or similar, they're for amateurs) and if I had found any evidence I would then have made the accusation to the person involved - I didn't get beyond the suspicion stage which I noted because of the different style of writing, and don't see any reason to.
  
  Probably now time to end the Alex, Barry and Ray thread!
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  12 September 2012     19:48191148
  #18       report
  Ray, while I am sure people on the Forum haven't a clue what you are trying to prove, especially considering post 1 is based on fact-finding, where the figures come from economic analysts and official offices such as the Office for National Statistics, and are not personal opinions, it is most probable that some readers have found out some facts on the Public Debt that they were not aware of.
  
  This was in essence the point of my post.
  
  Before doing the research, even I didn't know that our official Public Debt is equivalent to 65% of GDP, and that by 2015 it will be 100% of GDP at the present rate,
  Or that the extended Debt is more than double the official one, namely (£2.3 trillion).
  
  Until now, only Barry has said he believes Britain is on the road to economic recovery.
  
  How about, Ray, instead of poking holes in my style of writing, you answered the question in post 1?
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• howard mcsweeney1

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 62,352
  12 September 2012     20:14191156
  #19       report
  come on chaps all getting a bit personal when the thread subject is much more serious.
  
  do we have a debt/deficit problem?
  
  discuss.
• Guest 651

  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 5,673
  12 September 2012     20:30191159
  #20       report
  Heck of a lot of research there Alexander - seems like it all comes from this page which was top of a google search
  
  http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/
  Been nice knowing you :)

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