howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 September 2010
19:1771354our european masters are voting in a months time over the issue of 20 weeks maternity leave for feamle persons that get a bun in the oven.
the chambers of commerce are up in arms, arguing that employers cannot afford this.
to me it seems an act of folly, small firms will be the hardest hit, it will also hit the employment prospects for women of child bearing age.
17 September 2010
19:2371356Yes it will Howard, without a doubt. I already know several business owners who won't employ women of child bearing age because of the current maternity leave profile, so if it is made even more detrimental to employers then it will no doubt get even more detrimental to women's employment opportunities. I had a young lady on maternity leave a while ago, for my small business it was extremely tough to get through and I know for a fact that with even bigger leave and payment possibilities on the table, I certainly won't be in a rush to recruit female staff again.
It doesn't matter about all those discrimination laws, an employer can come up with a million sound reasons not to employ someone if there are plenty of decent people to choose from. I'm not against maternity leave by any means but I am against it taking the piss out of employers, especially little struggling ones like me and millions like me.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 September 2010
19:4071359i think that any employment discrimination laws have a negative effect.
the age discrimination bill was a total disaster, it just meant that employers had to invite any older applicant to an interview which was a total waste of time and money for both interviewer and interviewee.
certain jobs suit a certain age and sometimes sex.
my failed application to join "take that" goes to show.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
17 September 2010
20:0371362I agree Rick that we need to consider the impact on SMEs
Howard surely the overarching purpose of most employment non discrimination legislation is the desire to create a level playing field where real merit/competence/skill can be considered rather than a set of assumptions or prejudices
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
17 September 2010
23:0371385Ross, how do you enforce the level playing field? For example let's assume I'm hiring a new sales person and I interview a black guy, a white guy, a deeply religious guy, a pregnant mum-to-be, an old guy and a disabled guy. Only one person can get the job. Now let's assume I employ the white guy for no reason other than I think he is genuinely best for the job. Fair enough. But say I was a secret racist, or I didn't like oldies, or I was sexist, or I didn't like religion (!?!), etc, I would still employ the white guy and still give the same reason: he's best for the job. How would anyone ever know I'd broken the employment law and how do they enforce it?
I really don't think that these employment laws are realistic, they certainly won't overcome the prejudicial requirements or expectations of a lot of employers. If an employer wants a young guy in the workshop instead of a 50-plus guy or a woman, then he will just end up employing his young guy but will just have to waste time interviewing a few older guys and women to get there. You get the idea.
What REALLY baffles me is how the acting profession can break just about every employment law in existence. They actually have to ask for people of a certain age, certain sex, certain height or skin colour, they can smoke in the workplace if the scene demands it, and so on. Can you imagine if a local estate agent office put an ad out for a "young white female in mid 20s, slim with athletic build and strong voice, wanted for general admin duties". Only in our dreams, eh lads?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
17 September 2010
23:4371389The only other place where all these laws don't apply is the Houses of Parliament.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
17 September 2010
23:4671391I understand where you are coming from but I do not agree, I am constantly pleasantly surprised at the quality of candidates of all ages races and genders that present themselves for interview when I recruit, strangely of the last 8 people I have taken on 7 of them were women, half of them were not white, they all happened to be the best candidate at that time.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
18 September 2010
07:5471401I am suprised that there has been no response from our female members.
I am from the old brigade who thinks mothers should stay at home until their children go to school, but I was not under the pressure that young mothers are now.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
18 September 2010
08:4271409I donnot think mothers are under anymore pressure than when I was first married with children .I gave up work when my first child was born .I did not have a washing machine ,just an old mangle housed in the shed .Coal fires .I made most of my childrens clothes and cooked proper meals .My second chid was born twenty months later .My husband and I struggled to get a deposit for our first home a maisonette .
No holidays just a week or two in Cornwall visiting the family .Birthdays and wedding anniverseries we went out for a meal .Neither of us smoked and we did not have a car .I brought both my new babies home on a bus ,.
When I was widowed all those years ago I erceived a widow Mothers Allowance and a small pension from my husbands employer .I did not go back to work as I left a job open for a youngestr from school .I managed .
I did go back to work when my first two were seven and nine and then only part time so we could buy a car .
Times are no harder now .In my day sigh sigh we had to wash Terry Nappies ..
We were a family and my children were looked after by their parents and sadly when my husband died I had to fill both roles .The only reason I can afford nice clothes now is because of my childrens genoristy I helped them and all have good jobs .
18 September 2010
08:4771412Jan, Sue, REAL women, I salute both of you. X
18 September 2010
08:5671416Hello.............
When we started having our four kids I worked nights as a nurse to support us with the Old Man working days. I spent about 9 years on virtually no sleep working long hours nursing people and long days bringing up the children. No complaints, though - fab times!! When I think back on it I am not sure how we did it!!
18 September 2010
09:0571423When ours were very young I worked 9-5 Mon-Fri in an office in London and Mon, Wed, Fri-Sun 7-11+ in a local hostelry (Cauliflower Hotel), and Hazel worked at the hospital 05.30 - 0700 Mon-Fri. This was the only way we could have bought our first house (GLC mortgage). It was a mighty struggle and as the kids became less, babe in arms, Hazel jacked her job in to bring them up.
They are a credit to us because they had the benefit of a good loving mother at the important formative stage of their life. I played my part of course, but the female role in childraising is without doubt the key to well adjusted and happy children.
18 September 2010
09:0671424How could I disagree with that!!?
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 September 2010
09:1571426I must be the only person on the forum thinks that maternity leave is a positive and civilised step forward for equal rights and women.
When I had my own business I hired a partly sighted typist....well she was nearly blind imho and the bog and door signs we had to purchase in braille were
expensive but well worth it.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 September 2010
09:3271432at the end of the day any employer will hire the best of the candidates, i cannot see any legislation altering that fact.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 September 2010
09:4971435Howard
Probably in an attempt to stop unscrupulous and sexist bosses
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
18 September 2010
09:5971437Not the only one Marek
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 September 2010
10:0071438Ross
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
18 September 2010
10:3371442Marek, "equal rights"!!!!????? So how long does a bloke get off work for paternity leave? Why should the employer pay anyweay?
We only have such paid leave entitlement because the welfare state doesn't work, and this element has been privatised.
18 September 2010
13:4871456We can never legislate against personal whims. I am guilty of appointing someone once (many many years ago) because I liked the look of him. Not proud of it, but I don't think it was deliberate and he was actually very good at the job. So to speak. Oo-er. Best stop typing now..............
Fact is, even if we are committed to fair play and equality, we still make unconscious choices about which we cannot legislate. But legislation to re-balance things is a good move. Isn't it?