howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#1
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#2
I heard IDS and others talking over this issue on the radio this morning. Work on this issue in Glasgow is progressing well. (see link below)
The 'recent' predilection for weighing the pig, as opposed to feeding it, to show progress might yet scupper all efforts. What needs to be kept in mind is relative costs of such initiatives as that in Glasgow set against the cost of ineffectual imprisonment. "How to get the Private Sector involved and profiting?" Might again be the only question this government will want answered. Prison being one sure way to get such a return.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/05/glasgow-gang-busters-david-cameronIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#3
Just pack them in tighter
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#4
David,
You should not think that 'sardonic' comes from the same root as Sardine.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#5
I have no sympathy for people in prisons tom, nor politicians making weak excuses.
4 in a cell, 6 in a cell, I couldn't care less. You never know if prisons are so awful re-offending rates might drop.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#6
we need to do summat about prisons and who we send there.
and if theres a need then build more prisons
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#7
Agree keith, re-offending rates suggest a complete lack of fear of prisons, they need to be places criminals dread.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#8
I wonder how many would re-offend if they were kept in the same conditions that were around at the turn of the last century.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#9
Spot on jan.
One of the greatest modern myths is when people say
You judge a nation by the way it treats its prisoners
As if harsh prison conditions are barbaric, no they're not, its called preventing re-offending.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#10
Does not something have to be said about the relative attractions of inside verses outside? Is there no scope to improve life outside rather than make things worse inside?
Could a fear of prison not carry with it other more darker consequences than simply turning a criminal into a model citizen overnight?
A fear of prison carries with it a fear of capture, a fear of capture in turn...??
Let us not slide into thinking, Whoopee!! For the twenty first century, the answer to crime is close at hand.
Sure, we could follow the USA;3 strikes etc. And add Prisons to the NHS and the Military as drains upon taxes, but a new source of profit.
BTW the south downs is the ideal place to begin. (?)
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#11
For all those forumites pontificating about prisons just how many of you have ever visited or examined living conditions in any of Englands prisons?.
I spent 3 years working for the Prison Dept in the North Regional office and during that time visited many prisons,remand centres,borstals and even had the misfortune of visiting Myra Hindley in Styal womens prison. There are very few 'cushy' prisons as you call them and the reason they are perceived as not being a deterrent is because most offenders once they have a prison record have little or no chance of obtaining employment so thieving and crime is their only (as they see it ) option.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
#12
Harsh prison still exist around the world and they have prisoners in them so the evidence that they reduce crime or stop re-offending is not clear.
Countries that have the ultimate deterrent, the death penalty, still execute people so even that doesn't work!
Complex isn't it?
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#13
Very complex, but I dont see how they can be full, just keep squeezing them in.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#14
Well said David Little and Jan - far too many people worry to much about criminals. Pack 'em in and, if necessary get some old hulks in Portsmouth harbour as prison ships, its been done before. If they drown escaping tough.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#15
i was beginning to wonder whether you were getting a bit soft for a while barry.
reassuring to know that you are back to your old self.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#16
Soft - me never Howard, whatever gave you that impression...?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#17
barry
you are the last bastion of the hard right on here, roger is much more moderate nowadays.
as for nationally none of the blue leadership say what they really think anymore, any m.p. that speaks out for old party values is likely to end up in hot water.
having said that the reds are not much better, on here we just have keith and reg that espouse traditional values whilst nationally we rarely hear any red blooded socialism.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#18
Howard - traditional right, not hard right. There are plenty of MPs who are engaged in applying pressure from the right to counterbalance the impact of the LDs. Not all of it is spoken to the press, some is quite open. This is not taboo in the way it is in the Labour Party as is only right for a party of individuals and as long as MPs vote in accordance to the whip and coalition agreement, this causes no problems and in fact a certain amount leeway is accorded even then as the voting records show unless it come to major key votes that is.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#19
barryw
hard right, wihout a shadow of doubt.
Most people have recognised(except barryw it seems)that the co olition is fallng apart.
so many differing ways;
lib dems not happy with the way tories heading
back bench lib dems not happ with clegg
lib dem membership not happy with direction the party is going
tory backbenchers not happy how sweet cameron is keeping the lib dems
plus much much more
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#20
Your wishful thinking again Keith.
Anyone to the right of Ken Clarke is 'hard right' to you. Such a description by you is something to be proud of. However, traditional right is far more accurate on the scale of things, simply because there are a good many more to the right than me.
