howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
further howard the labour candidate is correct she would have stood in an selection list that included all, but sadly this did not happen.
Thus we will never know if she is the preferred candidate?
Of course the ex london based candidate is correct in stating there are far reaching issues caused by the tories which i share, but imposing candidates is not the way to gain support
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Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
So what's her position on the eu Keith ?
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Very interesting development. As the Mercury or Kentonline dont seem to have a picture of Labour stalwart Keefy Sansum here's one...so you can cross the road when you see him coming !lol!!
But yes we had this topic on another thread and we know Keef feels strongly about it. But spoiling your ballot paper and getting others to do the same is playing into the hands of the opposition who of course in this case is Charlie Elphicke. It will help Charlie get back in...so he will be happy. So it strikes me that Labour supporters doing this are shooting themselves in both feet.
And Charlie is already on the case..this week I have had a super gloss leaflet from Charlie delivered through the letterbox and to follow that a second mailing.. a personal survey asking me for suggestions as to how to improve things locally which was also from Charlie. A good idea, a good way to get community support.
KeithB no doubt the Clair Hawkins position on the EU will emerge in time but my guess is that it will be much the same as Labours overall stance. Labour are more pro EU than say.. Conservative backbenchers. Mr Cameron himself hit the ground running as PM two years ago by being very pro EU but his revolting backbenchers have caused him to pause on the wooly PR.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
purely for info the dover mercury did have a picture but ok
anyway back to the point in hand.
keithb; i have no idea where the ex london labour candidate stands on any issue and hopes should she get any near parliament we wll see a radical stand unlike the present issue.
paulb; i fully understand your view on my stand on women only shortlists but believe me this has taken a lot of soul searchng before coming to my latest decision.
Had the national/local parties gave good reason for such a move that might have helped, but it looks to me like the labour party is happy to lose out of winning dover and more further afield losing getting into number 10.
They also locally hope that i dont get support, or go quiet and no one will notice labours imposed candidate, but i will right up to he next election be reminding people of labours position.
And yes everyone has a right of a view and this will be a view everyone will get to hear between now and the next gweneral election
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
But Keef it is not accurate to say ex-London in the way you are doing it. Both her parents are Labour councillors locally in Deal. Clair was born in Dover so how much more local can you get for the Dover-Deal constituency.
Almost all our local daughters sadly have to go to London at some point to try and make it in the world. My one did the same, as there are no real opportunities here. So it is a fair path and you learn greatly from it when you experience the cut and thrust of business or academic life in London.
Just come back to add this...yes I hope too that Women Only shortlists are halted now at this juncture. There are plenty of women in Parliament these days so hopefully this divisive selection system can be brought to an end.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
paulb;
we dont often disagree, but your showing your champagne socialism on this one lol
yes the london based candidate did become a cllr in london living there as your right her original route was being born in dover.
but what was wrong was the local labour party was critical of charlie for doing the same, tha doesnt hold water any more.
labour is now fixed into the W.O.S. forever so sadly we are stuck with it,
the damage has been done
when labour dont regain the seat watch them attempt to blame me, when in fact i gave them loads of notice and they did nothing
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Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
lol! I better put the champagne back in the fridge for now!
I think the Charlie Elphicke situation was different. But no we dont often disagree and I have sympathy for your stance, but we are where we are and hopefully the WO short lists will disappear in the not too distant future.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
paulb;
champagne socialism realy doesn't work in the real lefty debates lol
many of us cant even afford the fridge lol
as you know paulb im not usualy outspoken lol
but watch this space ,,,, lots more to come lol
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Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Having been a victim of Women only Panels which ended my contribution to local
Government at County,I am bias.
It is discrimination and it is not democratic and it damages the Labour Party`s
credibility...ie.would we condone men only panels.?
It does have to disappear in the not too distant future or I will be joining Keith in spoiling
my ballot paper with a message on it.
# 4.......therefore I will only be guilty of shooting myself in one foot.!!
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
It is such a shame that this ha reached this level and i can see no light at the end of the tunnel
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Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Keith continue your protest but not at the expense of handing another term to our current MP, Labour have a very good local candidate albeit selected by a flawed system, protest against the system not the person. The London references are a cheap shot, how much more local could she be?
Audere est facere.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
this is looking to be a similar problem for the reds as europe is to the blues.
just as the latter are losing members, activists and voters to ukip - some red voters will abstain whilst in some areas an independent red candidate will stand.
why head office decided to make such a controversial move in a marginal constituency will remain a mystery.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
While I do not agree with short lists of any kind,Clair is local,far more than Keith who is Irish, no of course he isnt but his Mum came from there,and Clair was born in Dover,lives in Deal and works in Aylesham,yes she moved away for a time but she is back home.
I do not understand where Keith is coming from,perhaps he needs the publicity,is he really telling people to spoil his or her vote doesn't he believe in Democracy.It is a sad fact that in the House of Commons 52% of the population is represented by 25% of female M.P's. Lab 31% Con 16% Lib 12%.
Even at District Council only 14 Cllrs are women out of 45 less than 30%
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
spoiling a vote is not undemocratic john, anyway back to the issue here of discrimination. you are clearly in favour of the new method of selection and have quoted statistics to back up your case.
the last 4 mayors of dover have been women, do we draw up a male only shortlist for the next 4 years to balance things out?
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Clair's stance on Europe and, indeed on any issue, must be exactly the same as official Labour policy otherwise she would not have been short listed, let alone selected.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
Howard I do believe in Democracy and Equality,yes the last 4 Mayor's have Dover have been women,and anyone can stand and in the last 2 years that I have been involved again only women have put up.
By the way on the Town Council 8 of the 18 Cllrs are women 66% of the Labour Cllrs and for the rest 0% 0 out of 6.So we need more men selections I would suggest at Town Council level, of course we dont it is open for everyone.
I said I dont believe in any short list but knowing Clair she not only is a good candidate I believe she would have beaten most men candidates,and she will make a good local MP,unlike Charlie who was bussed in first of all for Thanet South which he didn't get,then Dover and Deal and remember I used to have a cigarette with him when he was on his way by train back to London.
The most important questions in my mind are these;
1.Can Clair do the job.YES
2.Is she local. YES
3.Would she fight for Dover and Deal.She already has started.
I first stood for Council in 1979 when Jane Chapman was bussed in for the Labour Party,but I also knew Peter Rees and even remember David Ennals as well as David Shaw and of course Gwyn Prosser.Clair can bring a new fresh younger approach to the job. She also got 80% of all voting members of the Labour Party locally as I understand it.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Paully B , Clair Hawkins was educated firstly at Deal Parochial CE Primary & both she & her sister were at school with my two girls, Clair being in the same class as my eldest daughter also called Claire [note spelling difference].
Watty
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
So according to Keith then Paul you and your family are not local!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
john
you are making this an issue about clair, which it isn't.
i don't doubt that she got the majority of the popular vote but if probable front runners are excluded then it lessens the impact.
drawing a parallel with the mayor's position is not really on either, anyone could have stood if they wanted to.
