Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
#21
Your penultimate paragraph sums it up well Tom, I would prefer that part of the Heights to be used for something that will have more mass appeal, something for young and old alike but all we can think of is a war memorial, which when all is said and done is going to have limited appeal.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#22
Hence why a memorial, vistor centre, heritage trails etc all working together need to work together
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#23
I have just enjoyed watching a Spitfire flying patterns overhead. It is not an unusual sight to see this wonderful plane, accompanied by two helicopters carrying fare paying passengers willing to pay for the privilege of seeing and filming it in flight.
Now it is a solo flight but the last time they flew in numbers in our skies they were defending us from the very real threat of an invasion, and they won. Everyone of those pilots deserves to have his name remembered, not just as a group but as someone's husband, son, father or lover. This also applies to all those men and women who were not visible in the skies, but served and died in our defence here and overseas.
Their deeds are not forgotten, as is shown by the people willing to pay for the experience of flying with them in spirit. The icon of the country they were defending is, without doubt, the White Cliffs and it is here that their names should be remembered and celebrated. That so many nations, so many races and creeds, could pull together in common cause is a valuable lesson that needs to be taught and remembered.
The memorial would pay a debt to each of those individuals and a visitor centre would teach the future generations.
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Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
#24
Chris the 2nd World War started 73 years ago, I don't remember it, wasn't even alive, my Family suffered horribly which I am not going to elaborate upon but would they have wanted a memorial looking out over that wonderful view, no they wouldn't.
When you go on your holidays do you make a point of going to a war memorial or do you want to relax and enjoy yourself?
My grandchildren aren't interested in memorials the whole concept is too remote for them to comprehend and I think most younger people are the same.
I don't think this town will ever be a tourist destination unless somebody starts thinking outside the box.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#25
Most of us with parents who served, or even just lived through, those years will probably have some horrible stories to tell, just looking at my great grandfathers WW1 medals in their frame above this computer reminds me of a few My fathers are being framed at the moment).
The thought that remembering the fallen is a concept "too remote for them to comprehend" is a terrible indictment on the education, and upbringing, of the next generation. If we want them to grow up with any pride in their home country and a desire to work for a better tomorrow then they need to learn from the past. My own children take great delight in playing around the old pill boxes on the Heights and in the moats but they also know what they were built for. The knowledge does not stop them relaxing and enjoying themselves, any more than knowing what went on in the Colosseum would prevent my enjoyment of a visit.
For many families the knowledge that their forefathers are remembered as more than just a statistic attached to a stone pillar would have great resonance.
Dover does need some ambitious thinking but we also have to begin with what we have and that starts with an enormously vital place in the nations history.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#26
A place with no history is a place I don't really want to go.....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
#27
Nobody is suggesting we destroy our history but Dover just seems to concentrate more on history than the future, there has to be a balance and nobody seems to be able to find it. Instead we are creating a War Memorial to all those who died but what about the living all we are doing is adding to the past.
I sincerely hope that such a memorial is free to all and is not going to be dressed up as some form of heritage attraction, because that would be simply obscene.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#28
It is planned as a memorial, it would not serve that purpose if there were a charge to get in.
Careful studies have shown that it will attract a lot of visitors and experience tells that such visitors will be spending in the town. This increase in cash-flow in the town gives opportunities for growth that present Dover with a future. Maybe someone could then cash-in on Dover's future history as Dan Dare's spaceport.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#29
Chris, have you an estimate on how many local people would want a WW memorial in Dover of the kind you say? How do we know it is what the people want?
Ho much would it cost, and who's paying for it?
You say it is for cash-flows in the town. This detracts from the purpose of a war memorial, which is supposed to be offered for reasons of remembrance, not with the aim of obtaining a cash-flow.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#30
Dover's past history is about all that will bring tourists into the area and town so a tasteful memorial would be entirely appropriate. Unless a theme park of some sort is built we will have to rely on our history.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#31
a bit late on this alex, this has been going the rounds for a few years and everyone was in favour.
suddenly the stop everything crowd comes on the scene, it won't cost us a bean.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#32
What past can be learnt from, Howard?
That Christ taught us to love one another, and then countries went to war?
Wars are often happening, and it seems many in the world simply will not learn.
So no, I have nothing to learn from a WW memorial, my belief being, we must not get involved in other people's wars. Forget the past, it's a lesson we need to learn for the present and the future.
Life is too precious to fling it away for somebody else's war!
Surely we don't want a young lad going to the memorial in 10 years time and saying: there's dad's name, he died in the Middle East in 2013.
Hence, let's remember that the war with Germany is over, and while I love listening to Colonel Bogey played by a British band blowing the brass and smashing away at drums and tamburines, I don't forget that there was a war or two, but don't really need to be reminded either.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#33
i think you are evading the issue here alex, why the sudden wish to stop the memorial when the plan was well documented about 5 years ago.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#34
Cos it's Alexander and opposing something grabs some limelight?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#35
#32 Mr JC was (allegedly) around over 2000 years ago - time to get over and forget him too?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#36
I can't see any overwhelming support for a War memorial on Western Heights.
Five years ago there still wasn't a banking crisis and an economic collapse.
Things have moved on, we must look at the present and the future.
The World wars haven't been forgotten, and Western Heights is a memorial to the Napoleonic wars in terms of its being a Scheduled Ancient Monument.
So why build another monument when we already have one??
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#37
Because one would compliment the other Alex, in ways you will never want to understand.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
#38
It really says something when you have to rely on a War Memorial to attract visitors, just what Dover needs, I can see lines of coaches with hundreds of people rushing to see it and then saying they enjoyed it so much they will return next year.
Who actually wants it the DTC because if that is so we can breathe easy, because they cannot even agree on a public lavatory.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#39
With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.
Solemn the drums thrill; Death august and royal
Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres,
There is music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.
They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
They mingle not with their laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables of home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.
But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;
As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.
"For the Fallen" by Laurence Binyon. The alternative title is "Lest we Forget".
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#40
#36 - "Western Heights is a memorial to the Napoleonic wars"
Up on your history eh Alexander? Napoleonic is just a fraction of the history of the Heights given the Roman, American Wars, Royal Commission, Victorian, WW1 and WW2 additions....
Been nice knowing you :)