howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
roger
i would like to see the wording of this directive that the council have received.
my understanding is that the council are saying that they cannot be discriminatory about who they charge admission to.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Well Keith, we shall have to wait and see. Actually I don't see why museums should be free and I think £3.50 is a bargain for a single visit, let alone a yearly pass.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
All this is such a shame. As a young girl I lived round the corner from the Museum and very ofte used to pop in on my way home from school. I learnt so much there and got to be known and allowed to see some of the items not usually on show and they used to unlock the butterflies for me! I first learnt to appreciate antiques there and started a lifetime's interest in history and archaeology. None of this would have happened if I had had to pay entrance. I think that at the very least children should be allowed to enter free of charge.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Agreed Diana.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I also agree with this.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well gordon cowan has just confirmed that in 2003 a euro directive was introduced after a complaint by an italian that he was not treated equally in entrance fee to a UK resident ie a uk resident got free entry whilst he had to pay.
the judgement was that no european country cvan discriminate in this way,
DDC held off for as long as possible until the issue was raised, including free entry throughout the school holidays, once raised then the council needed to act.
the felt the best way would be to introduce an all round £3-50 fee where you can visit all year round once you paid the dosh so A one off payment.
that way it gets round the directive and so in the councils eyes doesnt leave them open to legal challenge.
hope that helps
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
Thank you Keith. I believe I have found the judgement:
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2009-03/cp0304en.pdf
It appears no UK museum was involved, but the judgement sprang out of a case of perceived age discrimination purely within Italy.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
as per that link it was about age discrimination, but the new admission fees are based on age.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
It spins out of it Howard. Under the 2003 EU Court of Justice ruling it appears that museums are not allowed to give preferential treatment for any category of citizens, whether it be age, nationality or location, such treatment has been deemed to be discriminatory. The case that started this all was an Italian case based on free entry for Italian pensioners, and it was determined that the Italian authorities were acting unlawfully by endorsing this. Similarly, by giving free entry to Dover residents, DDC could be perceived as giving preferential treatment to local residents which would be in breach of EU law.
It's very unfortunate, but it increasingly seems that DDC's hands were tied over this. They are not the first council to have come up against this - see the recent situation in Carlisle:
http://www.hexhamcourant.co.uk/carlisle-museum-s-free-entry-card-does-not-break-european-law-say-experts-1.782006?referrerPath=home/2.3307
It's looking increasingly that the £3.50 per annum entry fee was the best option DDC could take; otherwise there was a risk of breach of EU Law with resultant penalties.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"Could it be yet another case of council officers embarrassing the political leadership by taking controversial decisions and keeping councillors in the dark?"
It is probably part of the delegated duties down to the officers - just think what it would be like if every decision the council had to make about everything had to go to committee
I have just been stuffed by my software company and it is going to cost £XXX to do - up to a certain level it can just be agreed internally rather than go to committee/councillors.... Chance are that we could only be talking about £10k a year.
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
We have visited the Museum many many times over the last 10yrs since we moved to Dover and always thoroughly enjoyed our visits. We learned a lot about Dover and the surrounding areas.
On our first visit there we noticed on a scale model our house was the only one in our street with a green roof, so we enquired as to why and were told that it was because our house was the only one with no bomb damage during WW2..... fascinating!
I think £3.50 per year is a very reasonable price to pay. We always buy little items from the museum shop, they have some nice pieces of jewellery there, hopefully one can still buy from the shop without having to pay in as the shop is right at the front.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it is very complicated phil, the e.u. think of us all as living in regions one minute then member states the next.
what will be interesting next is the general exodus from london to just outside because of changes to benefit rules.
many councils have already said that they will give priority to locals meaning that they will not house people from out of the district.
no doubt this will count as discrimination too.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
I too feel that the nominal entrance fee is a bargain for locals who use the museum more than once a year, as it is a great asset to the town. Whilst in Manchester recently I saw that they were now charging everyone an admission fee for both the Lowry and Imperial War museums and that it was not a voluntary charge but compulsory, and it wasn't cheap either
I have just spent 2 days with the granddaughter on there open days she loved it playing games making boxes playing with the racing cars, to very good days to keep her busy then came the shop on the way out, a pencil 50p a rubber 50p some stickers £2.00 and a writing Pad £3.50 £6.50 in all for two days great entertainment well worth it Thank you Dover Museum and I know you have many more of these family days coming up this year and next when she comes to stay we will be there.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
manchester is not a good example barry, the charging for museums is more to with political opportunism, the same as the closing of libraries, swimming pool and leisure centres.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Today I went to the museum, paid £3.50 and got a sheet of paper to fill in, which will enable me to go to the museum free of extra charge for a whole year.
All I need to attach is a photo.
Hope everyone here does the same. Our museum is worth it! Our heritage is documented there.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Well done Alexander - and I agree witrh your last sentence too.
I understand that DDC are putting out a newsrelease - a bit late, but as they say "better late than never".
Roger
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
I would be happy to pay £3.50 for a year's entrance to the museum, helping to protect our heritage.
---------------------------------------------------
Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
Many museums have been trying to charge an entrance fee over the past 20 years (mainly in cities and large towns) with the majority reverting to a voluntary payment, I think this £3.50 annual charge is a Great idea
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i still wonder why the council were not upfront about this in the first place, would have saved a lot of problems.