Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
The 'enemy within' was the cabal within the NUM who obtained Soviet and Libyan funding for the flying pickets and other activities with the clear aim of destroying the government's energy policy, not the rank and file miners who were the real victims in all this. The full details of this will not emerge until Scargill is dead. Some came out after the death of Jack Jones but I heard a rumour that there might be a super-injunction out there somewhere........
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/how-scargill-begged-the-kremlin-to-fund-miners-fight-with-thatcher-7288233.htmlI'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
It is to be hoped that an inquiry will reveal the truth and expose the role of government behind the strike. These were bad times for the democratic process and have damaged our society to this day. Accountability is long overdue but perhaps we are seeing the prising open of the establishment and we may yet get some light shed on the culprits and the victims.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW
"I remember exactly what went on in that strike".
I assume you are saying you remember the strike by watching it on TV or by reading about it somewhere.
That is not Knowing.
I very much doubt you made the effort to actually see it for yourself in person. So you have no right to make such comments as the above.
I did, I lived it, I know first-hand what it was like and you clearly know nothing about it.
"There was no excuse for the violence and intimidation committed by the strikers".
Why do you only vent at the strikers?
Could it be the same reason you always vent on those on benefits, those unemployed, those on the streets, the vulnerable amongst us?
You never paint the full picture do you, you never take in the whole truth, only the bits that suit you and what you think makes you look good and prove's your point. Thats quite sad really because if you never look at the full picture, whether you agree with it or not, you will never understand it, never learn from it.
Me, I have already condemned the violence and intimidation that happened from all parties, during the strike. I don't need to keep repeating that, I hate violence.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see"
"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see"
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter & Mark.
The truth must be forced out one day.
The pair of them have much to answer to.
The country deserve's to hear the full true story.
The miners need the truth to be told.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - Do you deny the scenes of mob rule and rioting or were those tv news programmes just actors?
Do you deny that police officers had their homes vandalised?
Do you deny that they were assaulted and spat at?
Do you deny that working miners were attacked and their homes vandalised as well?
I have already condemned any individual police office who acted in an unprofessional way, more than once, so for you to claim that I vent only at strikers is absurd.
At the end of the day the police were there to protect those going about their lawful occupations while the mob of strikers were there to intimidate the working miners into submission.
On that basis alone it is the police that deserve all the sympathy along with those brave working miners who went through those picket lines day after day.l
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I spent a few summers on the north east coast of England and marvelled at the abundance of shiny black pebbles, which I was informed were something called sea-coal washed ashore from an out-cropping seam somewhere out at sea.
I took it, and take it, as a mark of shear vindictiveness to target the gathering of such coal by the so-called forces of Law & Order.
If there is one thing that sums-up the attitude of the state to it's citizens (subjects) back then it is, Spite.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
The voracity of visualisations...
[URL]
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http://www.afilmunfinished.com/film.htmlIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
this enquiry will be a long one and a lot of former officers that though they had got off scot free will face prosecution afterwards.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
P.S.
I did, of course, intend 'veracity', but sometimes things work out so well.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/voracity
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/veracityIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Barry there is overwhelming evidence that the violence on the miners' side was organised and orchestrated by a Soviet-funded tiny minority of anarchist extremists who hijacked the protests and duped many honest miners into supporting them. Likewise in the police there was (and always has been) a very small element who routinely exceed their powers and use manipulation of evidence and outright perjury to achieve their aims. It's not as one-sided as you maintain and there have been many instances of institutional wrongdoing and conspiracies of silence in various police forces, as you well know.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
As usual, you deliberately fail to read my post, please try to be grown up enough to digest what I wrote.
Yet again, I stated.
"Me, I have already condemned the violence and intimidation that happened from ALL parties, during the strike. I don't need to keep repeating that, I hate violence"
I have never denied the below but yet again you fail to give the whole picture.
I have always condemned the below.
No, I do not deny any of the below.
Do you deny that police officers had their homes vandalised?
Do you deny that they were assaulted and spat at?
Do you deny that working miners were attacked and their homes vandalised as well?
No, I do not deny any of the above. Is that clear enough for you?
What about you on the below?
Do you deny that miners had their homes vandalised?
Do you deny that miners were assaulted and spat at?
Do you deny that miners were attacked and their homes vandalised as well?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Peter.
Don't forget Lybia.
The strike would have been won but for links with Lybia.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
I prefer the strike 'might' have been won but I am neutral.
As an aside, when we had the pub there were a couple of very dubious possibly 'red' Londoners who came in with a 'red' ex miner a couple of times.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - Thank you for clarifying your attitude to the violence, we are then agreeing that the violence was unacceptable from whatever side. Sad that you could not post that without an unwarranted personal attack but then I have come to expect that.
I certainly agree that working miners did have homes vandalised, were assaulted and spat at and I accept that there was also very likely some unwarranted actions of that kind to strikers as well. Who the guilty parties were is another matter, Scargill's bullies trying to keep the men in line is most likely there. If any police officer were found to have done that then that officer should have the book thrown at him and treated even more severely than a striker due to their position of responsibility. I can also understand why a working miner might of done that in retaliation and that is equally inexcusable.
At the end of the day the police were there to enforce the law and to enable working miners to go about there job.
The mob was there to bully and intimidate.
That is the bottom line.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
That just proves my point.
I have clarified my attitude and position on this, many times, in many threads and if you had the decency to read my posts properly, before attacking me, I am sure we would be getting along much better without all this unnecessary nonsense.
We will never see eye to eye, we come from different worlds and we are very different people. That does not mean we cannot learn from each other.
You have your own skills and attributes, I have mine. Yours is in finance, mine is in my community.
Ask as many questions as you want, on the Miners' Strike but listen to the answer's, they will be truly answered.
You was not there and not involved.
I was involved and I know the truth and soon everyone else will know.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i am sitting on the fence here a bit,but my own feelings that both sides gave and recieved crap,this was done by intimidation from a small minorety on both sides.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/scotland-21785289
Labour MSP Neil Findlay called for an independent inquiry into arrests and convictions in Lothian and across Scotland during the 1984-85 miner's strike, during his member's debate entitled Lessons from Orgreave on 14 March 2013.
The truth will come out.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
there does need to be an enquiry if we believe in trust of the legal system, the role of the police, and govt at the time, and see if there were any miscarriages of justice, and most importantly learnt from it all.
A lot of the debate centred around the proved fabrication of evidence by south yorkshire police in the hillsborough tragic event where so many died.
The same police force then together with security forces, snatch squads etc were involved in a very political dispute
and was it right for the police to be used in this way.
There needs to be an enquiry just to clear names of some who had never been in trouble all there lives, who still hold a criminal record.
Theres a lot more to come out
lets have an enquiry
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS