howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The garden by the side of Morrison's is cleared of rubbish by DDC when DTC tell them it needs it which they don't often do as they seemed to lose interest in it soon after the photocall at the opening back in about 2010.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,655
The green patch (I refuse to call it a garden) by the River Dour at the side of Morrisons should have been an outside extension to their cafe that way it would be looked after properly.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,981
Barrie as far as I can see Cllr Rix has become a Director of Love Dover,bought a property with tax payers money.Will be interesting to see who will over the cafe ?Ross fully aware of who does what but any decent council would lobby in this case DDC for action.You start with the lower tier and work up.Pride is what it's all about.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Just got this surprising bit of info through from Mr Newsam.
I asked the Town Clerk about ownership of the garden a couple of years ago as the River Dour Partnership needed to know who had riparian rights at that point. I was told that DTC don't own it, they had a management agreement put in place with Netto but it hadn't at that time been updated with the new owners (might have changed since).
Guest 1997- Registered: 3 Mar 2017
- Posts: 148
There's not really been much more information forthcoming since my last post. I find this strange. I really thought that it would engender more interest. Indeed the silence from my own "community" councillor has been deafening, despite the fact that he has subsequently posted on a separate subject. What's the problem, kind sir? Don't you have any interest in one of your constituent's genuine concerns? I wouldn't have thought such ignorance would bode well for your future political career.
But back to the topic in question, can anyone advise me whether it is true that Love Dover is a fully and correctly established charitable trust? I would also like to see the minutes of the meeting where the purchase of Dickens Corner was agreed and therefore the documented reasons for doing so. Finally (for now), I'm assuming that the purchase was funded by a loan to Love Dover from DTC tax payers' money. If so, on what basis and on what terms was this loan made and how can its progress be monitored?
Will anyone deign to respond?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I think you are being a tad optimistic Stuart if you are expecting any of our Town Councillors to respond on social media or anywhere outside the council chamber. I had high hopes for Peter Wallace and John Heron but they have gone off the radar. Keith is our only link and he got voted in months after the major event and is still trying to unravel it all, surprised he has not been in touch, did you write to his home address or the Town Council?
Welcome to the Forum by the way.
Guest 2001- Registered: 8 Mar 2017
- Posts: 7
This was C&P'd from the Town council's website - from the 21 Sept meeting:
REGENERATION IN DOVER
The Council considered the Chairman’s report of 26th July 2016 concerning the regeneration of
commercial premises in the centre of Dover (circulated prior to the meeting).
The Council considered the Chairman’s report dated 22nd July 2016 concerning the Town Team’s
Coastal Communities Fund project for the physical improvement of the Market Square/Bench Street
& Lower pedestrian precinct of Cannon Street, Dover (circulated prior to the meeting).
RESOLVED: a) That the Town Council agrees to fund £350,000 from the Special Project and
General Reserves to establish a stand-alone, not-for-profit, regeneration company
for Dover in line with the proposals outlined in the report above;
b) That the Town Council delegate the appointment of an interim board including
elected members and non-councillors with appropriate expertise and skills to make
decisions, initiate, and undertake the initial project outlined in this report – the
purchase and redevelopment of a commercial property in the centre of Dover -
during the incorporation of the regeneration company with appropriate reporting
on its activities back to this council to the Proper Officer and the Mayor;
c) That the Town Council fund technical works to develop to RIBA Plan of Work
Stage 4, the Coastal Community Fund project to improve the Market Sq. and
adjacent streets up to £25,000 from funds in the Planning Reserve.
I wonder why the report for this item was not uploaded......?
Guest 1997- Registered: 3 Mar 2017
- Posts: 148
Firstly, thank you for your welcome, Howard. Perhaps I am being overly optimistic but all I was looking for originally was a point of contact to which to send my questions. Starting with one's Community Councillor didn't seem to me to be unreasonable.
Secondly, thanks to Mermaid for the cut and paste. I hadn't seen that minute before. My apologies for not having dug deeper. It is helpful in that it points back to previous decisions but is far from clear. Not for profit organisations can comprise various types. Which type has been used? The minute refers to "the initial project outlined in this report" (Chairman's Report July 2016) being the purchase and redevelopment of a commercial property in the centre of Dover. Is this report available in the public domain? It will presumably give some insight into the reasons why this particular property was singled out whilst the regeneration company was still in the process of being incorporated. Additionally, the RC will report appropriate on its activities to the Council, the Proper Officer and the Mayor. Have any such reports been produced thus far and, if so, will they be made public?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,561
I do need to start by stating that Mr S Honey appears to be the only one that has difficulty making contact with me.
On the DTC web site has my name/address/tel number
I send out regular letters around the ward which has the above details plus my e mail address
He obviously also reads the local paper and my address is on the letters page as well.
So it surprizes me That Mr Honey makes these comments.
With regard to the topic heading, I have given my view before today, and don't hold much different views to Mr Honey. this decision was agreed in August (I joined in Oct)
And have asked many questions of this body to date as have a number of cross party councillors who have concerns.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 1997- Registered: 3 Mar 2017
- Posts: 148
So you have finally broken radio silence! Just to clarify the situation, I emailed you twice via Facebook personal messaging. Both of these messages you have ignored. The first one simply asked for an email address that would be most appropriate to contact with my questions. The second pointed out that just an acknowledgement or a simple "Sorry, don't know" would have been polite. You also ignored my first post on here. Before you burst out into squeals of denial, every action on Facebook is recorded and can be downloaded (although the mechanism is a bit tortuous) into a zip file. I would therefore have no problem whatsoever backing up what I have just said, if you want to make a slanging match of this.
Of much more interest to me is trying to understand why DTC suddenly decided to purchase a fairly immaculate looking (on the outside and public areas at least) town centre property and then establish some sort of not for profit organisation to faciltate it. I'm not saying there's skullduggery involved - I'm just mystified. I gather from your response that you can't take the issue any further forward at this point. I also sense a reluctance to dig deeper and ask the more awkward questions. That's fine. Of course, it's absolutely your prerogative. I just wish you could have said so in the first place and saved a lot of faffing about.
I'm still wondering if anyone else involved reads this forum and might consider a post to put matters straight?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I know what has happened here, if someone sends a personal message(not an e mail) to someone who is not on their Facebook friends list the recipient is not notified and the message goes into a folder. I only found this out by accident and discovered I had 5 messages going back over a year.
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Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,680
Stuart my understanding is that, as shown by the DTC minutes above, the Town Council agreed last year to set up an independent organisation that they endowed with £350000 with the aim of contributing to the regeneration of Dover Town Centre.
I understand that the advice DTC & Love Dover Regeneration (LDR) received from KCC legal department was that they should set up a Charitable Interest Organisation (CIO); unfortunately, this can be a long and tortuous process which it proved to be.
It was, I believe, agreed that Mr Rix & Ms Burton would be the founding trustees in order to get the process moving.
A number of opportunities arose whilst the Charity Commission was carrying out its deliberations, the first came to naught when the properties in question sold at well over the odds at auction; the second led to the interim creation of a Company Limited by Guarantee in order to facilitate its acquisition. I am aware that the owner of Dickens Corner has been considering retirement for some time and in all likely-hood this would have resulted in a very prominent premises in the market square being empty/boarded up for some time. Whilst I agree that the property does seem today to be in reasonable repair, if it was to be unoccupied for any length of time it would rapidly deteriorate. I know this purchase appears to be outside the remit that most people believe LDR was set up to meet but I think it has been done for the right reasons and I also believe having read their constitution etc, is actually within their objectives.
I know that LDR is in the process of appointing additional Trustees to ensure that it offers the best approach to delivering not only regeneration but also fulfilling its social impact remit.
I am also aware they realise that they need to do much better at being transparent about what they are doing especially as they are using money that has been gifted from the public sector.
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"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 1862- Registered: 23 Sep 2016
- Posts: 163
Again, I need to comment Ross. DTC do not clean that area up, a volunteer does the litter picking practically every day. I spoke with him. The bin was removed from the area, it belonged to DTC but was emptied by DDC. It's been gone since they took out the fence before Xmas and the litter build up is disgusting. Lots of it ends up in the Dour too. So yes, they are responsible but no, they do not clean it up, he is worried about needles he found, used by drug users and dropped or lost in the area. DTC only are in effect responsible for the allotments, which are a mess too. The same gent told me there was so much rubbish they could not reach when he joined the clean Britain for litter picking at the top part of the ward too. If brambles and bushes on the allotments side of the fence were cleared they would be able to get at the litter. Sorry but the more I look around and research various issues, the more it becomes clear that DTC are little more than a social club, with expenses, paid for by us, the tax payers. And by the very act of paying taxes, we are entitled to point out failings. In all this austerity, why is that alleged £ million plus not used to provide services for this town. We obviously paid for them, so what is happening with our money? And the accrued interest on it? Where is it and why is there no account shown to the residents together with the general accounts. Some call awkward questions red herrings, it seems. A straight, honest answer with no hidden agenda would be appreciated by all. Few of us care about the colour of rosette any representative wears but most like honesty and true representation, of the town, not political or personal views, but our views.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,655
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:I know what has happened here, if someone sends a personal message(not an e mail) to someone who is not on their Facebook friends list the recipient is not notified and the message goes into a folder. I only found this out by accident and discovered I had 5 messages going back over a year.
The same here Howard. I discovered this feature only a couple of months ago, I also had several luckily not one was important so easily ignored.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,293
In post #16 Christine A spoke about green algae on the windows of empty shops in the precinct. It's more than that, at least one of them needs a lawn mower inside!
I took the opportunity to take the pictures while the doorway's incumbent wasn't around!
Terry
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,655
That is disgusting and in such a bad state that I am sure most prospective (if there are any) tenants would walk away.
Thinking about additional trustees maybe someone with no connection to the DTC would be a good idea, how about one of the known vocal complainers.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,900
Well done Mr Miller, thank you for the information! Mr Sansum, you can stand down your months-long enquiries and those of the cross party councillors, which, like the public meeting, don't appear to have been overly productive anyway.
Moving on, if we can establish if the trustees have any plans to repaint the property, install a flagpole or allotment on it, tunnel under it or run a landtrain to it, then I'm sure this topic will have legs yet...
(Not my real name.)
Guest 1590- Registered: 22 Oct 2015
- Posts: 86
Hi everyone,
when I was initially told about this scenario I had my misgivings.The decision to go along this route was taken before I was elected to the council.Due to this I rang the mayor directly and to his credit he was very free and forthcoming with the questions that I asked.The answers he gave are basically set out in Ross's very detailed posting.He told me of the fear that the building may have been potentially sold to an individual or organisation that does not have the towns best interests at heart.I think that this is an issue that we can all relate to as we walk through the town every day.The setting up of the Company Limited by Guarantee was seen as a vehicle to accomplish the purchase as quickly as possible and then dissolved once the charitable status was achieved and trustees were put in place.
I believe that these decisions were taken with the future of the town at the heart of the matter.I also believe that we do need a 'plan' for the town centre as a mechanism to combat the neglect that has taken hold.I also feel that only direct action and agency will accomplish this.Is this the right route to be going down only time will tell,but do we have an alternative?
In regards to the Town Council in general.I think people need to keep in mind the proposed amalgamation of the four district councils.If this goes a head as proposed powers will be delegated down to TC level and DDC councillors wil be cut back (no bad thing perhaps)The Town Council will be enhanced as the districts first line of democratic interface.This is why it is so important to try and get things right at this level now,not in the future ,but now.
In respects to the Dover Forum its contents and its contributors are never more important than it is now.It is one of the last true echo chambers for people's opinions in the district left and even though I can't contribute as much as I wish to I am an avid reader when I get the opportunity.As per usual if people wish to have a word with me you can always see me in the town.
p.s.I do apologise if this is a bit long I have been saving it up for a while
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
jheron wrote:
p.s.I do apologise if this is a bit long I have been saving it up for a while
.... as the Bishop said to he actress.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 1590- Registered: 22 Oct 2015
- Posts: 86