Lorraine Sencicle
- 6 May 2009 10:1220791I do not propose to repond to political rants - I have seen too many of them!
What I have in detail said before is that Dover deserves a Hospital ( not a General Hospital so would people please stop clouding the issue with that statement).
We deserve a hospital with beds for maternity and aftercare, an emergency 24 hours, and all those facilities that the clinic will offer but with decent parking and room for growth.
Simple enough!
Not watered down but with specific facilities and links to the general hospitals. Millions are being spent every year by the public accessing the main hospitals in visiting and minor matters that would be more effective in our own town. Just a hub unit - but with growth potential.
None of these are served by the half baked plan in progress.
I have no political ambitions - I am regularly told by those in Power that the Independents will never achieve it but I am Dovorian and demand that we have proper consideration and dont become a political football.
D - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 May 2009 10:3820793davidh,thanks for clearing that up.
- 6 May 2009 10:5220794Welcome Lorraine, good to have you on board, very interesting reading indeed. Enjoying following this very informative thread
- 7 May 2009 06:0620855My thoughts are; whether it be Lorrain, Reg Hansell, or any other individual trying to get the best for Dover then lets encourage them.
I know Reg Hansell ios passionate about hospital status for Dover and he won't ever give up campaigning for it, heay well be standing for KCC but that should not be confused for his passion foir the best for Dover - 7 May 2009 07:3320862How come so many people seem to know whats best for Dover.When did they achieve Divine Right?
the decision has been made lets get on with the build..it will bring more jobs to dover town centre and give ease of access for many aged and less abled bodied to a decent polyclinic without traipsing all over Kent.All this prevarication does is delay the project and make it less likely that it will ever be built.
All the hospital staff have to be fed and watererd so hopefully the cafes bars and sandwich shops will flourish.The taxis should feel some benefit together with the local bus services.More visitors using Dover town centre shops is a good thing.
Getting a full blown hospital was never on the table so REg Hansell should get off his high horse and get on with making the most out of what we have got on offer.Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter) - 7 May 2009 08:0920864Thank you Collette for both welcoming me and recognising that I am trying to be informative and for that I will continue with the story ...
At the KCC-HOSC hearing of 9 May 2008, I put forward a CASE for a Community Hospital as envisaged by the Government and supported by the opposition. This is spelt out in White Papers etc. and for which Government grants are/were available but neither the PCT or the EKHT had applied for. - I will make available the report that I presented to anyone who wishes to read it.
At that time Mr Prosser and Mr Elphicke were both behind me and the DDC (all parties) were about to publish their intensly researched report ... which also agreed. I did not specify a site as I felt it expedient to stay within the legal perimeters so that if it went pear-shaped I could successfully apply for a Judicial Review.
As we should all know, I won and although the EKHT said that they would only spend £8.5m it was not long before the PCT - the then money providers coughed up £20m as a starter. At that time we had two senior officers of the PCT who were genuinely excited about the proposal and one from the EKHT who was caught between his employers view and the two officers enthusiasm (poor blocke)!
What happened next, in Dover, I will not go into other than it weakened our case. Suffice to say that in reality the EKHT reckonned (I have the estimates) that to provide the Community Hospital that had been won, would cost about £23m at least. This could be partly off-set by selling off the Buckland Hospital site (this was before the housing slump).
As for the site, the KCC-HOSC recognising that to keep my case in tact (in the event that a Judicial Review was persued), recommended that the site should be chosen by DDC/EKHT and the PCT.
I was however, later asked, by the KCC-HOSC, for my opinion on my preferred site. This was (and still is) Buckland Mill as there is plenty of space to expand, good access and is sufficiently close to the town to help with regeneration.
Regeneration was, and still is, DDCs main concern. As for Whitfield, shortly after 9 May, Berwicks offered a 6 acre site there - however, this was rejected by the EKHT
. Please note this was only days after the KCC-HOSC proclamation BEFORE DDC/PCT and EKHT had sat round the table in discussion!
If, Collette (or anyone else), wishes me to continue, I will ...
Lorraine - 7 May 2009 09:5220870Hi Lorraine,
Welcome from me too - it's so nice to read informative posts that are interesting, non-political and not insulting to anyone else. Please continue your postings - just what we need on here.
JacquiThere's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok". - 7 May 2009 10:2320876
- 7 May 2009 10:3220877Yes thank Lorraine,we have had discussions on this and it is most intresting to hear your comments,keep posting.
John GoodwinIf you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble! - 7 May 2009 11:4720882Marek it has to be a case of wanting the best for Dover, knowing and wanting can be different. The delays are caused by problems with the practical aspect of building on a site that, because of flooding risks etc. is not fit for the purpose. The expressed option of adding floors for expansion was always a non starter as it would mean having to restart from the foundations up in that location.
Isn't 'making the best of what is on offer' rather defeatist when there are better options that can be fought for.
Dover does need a hospital with beds because of its location and the number of people that pass through on a daily basis. Should there ever be a major accident in the town or port it would most likely be during bad weather which would hinder the air ambulance and everyone knows what it does to the roads.Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour - 7 May 2009 15:2420892Chris you ain't going to get a hospital with beds,that has already been decided,and by whom you ask,by the Doctors in the area.So we either get a hospital without beds or dither and f**t around and lose it again.The reason why a Central location as in Town Centre was chosen is because it is easy to reach by foot,rail and bus, but I am sure having it in the Town Centre would help regenerate the Town.
The Buckland Mill site would give much more room,but the flooding debate would continue,as it will for housing,personally I think that the chance of flooding happening two or three times in a century surely can be sorted.The other reason I am against Whitfield or New Dover is when it snows the first place to be cut off is Whitfield,just when you need a hospital you can't get up the hill.If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble! - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
7 May 2009 15:3520893charlton center is a good place for a hospital,nice and central, - 7 May 2009 17:5220897chris
you mention a possible emergency.
i have posted many times that all the emergency services have said they have every eventuality covered,
a hospital in dover is not something that they would require. - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
7 May 2009 19:1020899if not why not.? - 7 May 2009 21:5920911brian
the point i am making is, that without the support of the emergency services, the hospital is dead in the water.
allied to the fact that we have too many large hospitals in the area.
we choose to live in a small coastal town, hence we do not get large town and city facilities. - 7 May 2009 22:3320914Howard - the voice of reason. With those few words you sum it up nicely - well done that manThere's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
- Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
8 May 2009 07:0220915howard,may be so but my point is/was that we had a decent hospital in dover with 24 hour a/e in patiant wards etc,that is untill the nhs/goverment run the damm thing down to what it is now.if the nhs/govermentspent the money on it in the first place we wouldnt be in this position now would we.of course the mp didnt help matters but that is another story. - 8 May 2009 08:3320916Thank you everyone for wanting to hear more ... as I said at the outset, what I wish to achieve is to be as informative as possible. Obviously, because I have been at the heart of the so-called negotiations, my views will be seen as bias by some - hopefully just the EKHUFT and the PCT!
Following the decision for a full Community Hospital, with in-patient beds (step-up/step-down; maternity, observation, children etc.), day surgery, full diagnostics, outpatients, day care, children care etc. on 9 May 2009. This was not wishful thinking but what we were/are entitled to according to Government White Papers etc. The next stage was for a site to be chosen by the combined forces of DDC/EKHT and the PCT as I stated in my last posting. Apologies to Barwick are for mis-spelling their name.
A couple of weeks later I was asked by the DDC Scrutiny Committee to give evidence. This was the first time, although they had been aware that from October 2006 I had been Dover's appointed representative on the PPIF-PCT with a special remit appertaining to the Dover Project. The Dover Project was the consultation (sic) documents published by the PCT in 2006 followed by a number of public meetings at the ARC. I duly gave evidence and was open and candid, the response from the Councillors (all parties) was gratifying and reassuring. It was evident that we were of a like mind. Unfortunately - and this was to have long term repercussions - they failed to give me, or the KCC-HOSC ruling, any credit in their published document.
A week later the hospital march took place in Dover - I was not invited to speak.
At the time I was not well and my health quickly deteriorated until I was admitted into WHH in August for two concurrent major operations. Of interest I was 'released into care' before final discharge and staying at one of the nursing homes that now offer step-down care was proposed. I was already feeling somewhat down and the thought of going to one of those places, however good the care may be, was not conducive. As it was I was allowed home with the district nurse calling.
I will now bring in another 'body' into the equation; this is the GP Consortium. Part of the present set up for community care are consortiums of local GPs who 'buy' services from the PCT - remember that the PCT pay for the health services provided. It was initially envisaged by the PCT, when they set up the Dover Project in January 2006, that once it had gone through the due process that the GP Consortium would then take over 'buy' the services desired by the people of Dover. These services would be based on those recommended in the Dover Project consultative document which, it was felt would be accepted by the people of Dover. That was the thinking behind the Dover Project by the PCT, not my view.
As we know, the people of Dover made it clear by protests, petitions etc. that they were not happy with the Dover Project as it stood. In December 2007, I was invited by the GP Consortium to a special meeting, which would also be attended by officers from the EKHT and PCT. The Dover Project was the only topic on the agenda. By this time I had been given the specific remit to try and ensure that the hospital services Dover received were in line with the White Paper, Our Health, Our Care, Our Say. Because I could prove, by amongst other documents minutes that were not in the public domain, that both the EKHT and PCT were failing in this, I was well and truly up to speed. I was also backed-up by my chairman, Janet Bentley, whom I had kept fully informed.
The meeting was amazing! At first the GPs appear submissive but as discussion ensued and I could correctly pick up the officers from both EKHT and PCT and Janet was there to back me up! Soon the GPs joined in and I suspect that was the roughest ride that the officers from both health organisations had ever had! In the end it was agreed that Dover should have the Community Hospital that we were/are entitled to and that the Dover project as the PCT envisaged should be relegated to the rubbish bin! Following that meeting, which I still have the minutes of, the PCT noticeably started to back off but the EKHT held onto their guns up until the KCC-HOSC hearing of 5 May.
Next instalment tomorrow?
Lorraine - 8 May 2009 20:5020928What a pleasure to read Lorraine Sencicle's posts. Lucid and informative! However in response to a former post I should like to put the point of view of someone who has to keep traipsing over to K & C. Yes, fine, I do have transport, luckily and thank God for even with transport, my health problems often make the journey trying. I dread to think what such a journey on public transport would do to an elderly person. A local polyclinic is a compromise, but it is better than nothing. I wonder (and this may have been discussed before) what happened to the rumour around when I was young (when God was a boy) that money had been left to the town to build a hospital somewhere behind the Castle?
- 9 May 2009 00:3520932Howard, I was once unfortunate to have chronic chest pains and had to wait two and a half hours for an ambulance to be able to get through the traffic. In my case it was a false alarm but how serious could it have been. So much for having every eventuallity covered.Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour