Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
Lorraine has asked me to post this for her:-
Hi
In the local papers, except for yourdover which gave good coverage, it has been correctly reported that I had resigned as Governor for Dover of the East Kent Hospitals University Trust (EKHUFT), but have not said why.
I feel that the people of Dover should be told.
First of all I was elected on the tight remit to try and secure the best hospital services for Dover based on the White Paper Our Health, Our Care, Our Say. I had won the right for these services at the Kent County Council Health and Overview Committee hearings in May and September last year.
However, as a Governor I was expected to sign a form conforming to the principal of collective responsibility. This meant that I would have to publicly agree with any decision made by the EKHUFT Executive that would be detrimental to Dover, however vehemently I would disagree.
When I questioned this - and I was the only Governor to question it - it was made clear that in the view of the other Governors, I had a conflict of interests between the needs of the people of Dover, who had elected me, and the interests of the EKHUFT!
It was felt that the over-riding concern of the EKHUFT to be competitive in the world of national health care. To my mind the over-riding responsibility of the EKHUFT is to look after the needs of the people of Dover, (and also similar economically deprived areas where hospital access is poor). Once that is achieved THEN the Trust can turn its attention to creating the bright shiny highly competitive organisation that the EKHUFT aspires to.
Sadly I was defeated on both issues. Further, the values and aspirations of the other Governors expressed that afternoon were abhorrent to me. They imply that in the long run Dover will reap the benefits of a Trust that is geared to compete in the wider health market. As an economist, I quoted the late, great John Maynard Keynes, "in the long run we are all dead."
Lorraine Sencicle
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Terry I was only very very recently chatting to some of the gang this end about the possibility of Lorraine joining us on here. Would be keen to have her. Have been enjoying her latest feature in The Mercury which is absolutely terrific. So if you get a chance mention that I will write to her early next week to see how she feels about the prospect.
In the meantime thanks for getting this letter up...very interesting. Well done as ever Terry.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
No matter what people think of Lorraine (and I know there are some people with negative thoughts about her) she is a woman of principle.
I find it difficult to understand how ALL the other Governers at the Trust can feel so at ease about saying that Dover's needs come second best.
We need people like Lorraine to shout our cause; we have been let down so many times in the past and many medical services have been taken away from Buckland etc. that if we don't keep a tight reign on it, we may not get the services we have been promised.
Well done Lorraine for not signing.
Roger
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
I feel really sad this has happened as lorraine has worked really hard on this issue for Dover.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Whilst not involved in the full campaign but doing all i can I have to say this is again a very one sided story, you will find there are a number of other Governors also fighting for a DOVER hospital, and its sad we have to put people down, I disagree with many posters but as iv said encourage everyone who trys to get a better DOVER and this is one such campaign.
Lorraine is one of many individuals fighting for a better Dover but shes not better, doesn't work any harder than many, but still can be respected if the full view given out.
I would welcome her view and that of all the other Governors and the East Kent Health Trust to get the full picture.
hopefully
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
I agree Keith but I can only speak for Lorraine as I do not know any of the other Governors maybe it would be helpfull to know who they were.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the more i read about the new hospital/polyclinic, i find that personalities are infighting, reg hansell appears to be another one.
i do not know ms senicle or mr hansell, or the others at the forefront of the hospital campaign, but any split in the ranks can only be detrimental to dover.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
It is sad that we have these splits, doesnt help Dover but sometimes EGO's take over and people think they are more important than the cause(no one in mind)
I have no idea who the other govornors are must be easy enough to find out will see what i can do
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
Lorranie has tried to log in but for some reason can't. Paul will have a go at sorting it. In the meantime she has asked me to post this:-
First, in answer to Keith Sansum, there are three elected Governors of the EKHUFT for the DDC area, one from Dover (myself until resignation), one from Deal and one from the villages. At the meetings only the one from Deal attended and she was on the side of the EKHUFT (a retired employee).
At the meeting of Friday 24 April there was a lady who purported to be a Councillor (I think she was a Counsellor although she implied the first). I was not close enough to see her name plate and she did not give her name. However, she said that she represented to Dover as an 'appointed Governor' and that as far as she was aware the hospital issue was not emotive. Further, that the people of Dover had made it clear that they were happy with the proposals following the 2006 public hearings and the proposed facilities! Sorry Keith, but there was no one, except myself, who stuck up for Dover.
ii. With regards to splits and Mr Hansell. Mr Hansell, prior to 9 May KCC-HOSC hearing, stated that he supported the case I had put together and was arguing for a Community Hospital for the town. On that day he asked, as the Councillor for Eythorne, to put forward the case for outlying villages - which was agreed (halving the time I had been allotted). Instead of putting forward a case, Mr Hansell read out three unsolicited letters one of which, purporting to come from Mr Prosser, contradicted the written statement Mr Prosser had submitted. A second letter, purporting to come from Mr Elphicke, supported my stance.
Following that hearing, which I won, Mr Hansell announced that he wanted more (I have his e-mail informing me of this), ... a full General Hospital. This, I was well aware we would not get, even if approved, for at least twenty years (it does take that long to get the buildings, facilities and calibre of staff etc. needed).The Community Hospital, with in-patient beds, supplying 90% of our needs was 5 years and would get full Government approval, backing and grant.
The media ignored what I had won, preferring to give Mr Hansell maximum publicity. Mr Elphicke promptly joined Mr Hansell while Mr Prosser was noticeably quiet.
At the end of May 2008 the DDC Scrutiny Committee (both parties), came to the same conclusion as that I had and won at the KCC-HOSC. Unfortunately the local media had, by that time, made an icon out of Mr Hansell and he led a march through the town in his support. This sent a plain message to both the PCT and the then EKHUT that there was dissention in Dover. Therefore, when what had been won on 9 May was again confirmed at the KCC-HOSC of 5 September, both Trusts could smile and not comply - our case, mine and DDC's - had been pulled from underneath us by Mr Hansell and his supporters in the media.
Thus, as the Dover Councillor at the meeting 24 April 2009 stated ... the matter is not emotive as the Dover 2006 Dover Project with a basic health facility in the centre of town (Health Centre / Electricity sub station site) has been met with full approval the people of Dover.
Lorraine Sencicle
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Loads of biased and unfactual statements about Mr Hansells stand and those of us that wanted a proper hospital for Dover ( not a General Hospital - but at least as good as Deals) . Unfortunately we are getting no more than a Clinic in an unsuitable location and Mrs Sencicle and the DDC backed that and now have to live with it.
The people of Dover deserve better and should have had it. Those who claim it has the full approval of the people are living in cloud cookoo land.
Ask Charlie Elphicke of his opinion
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Hi
I have managed to get onto the DoverForum at last - thanks to both Terry and Paul.
I find Cllr Hannant's statement, that my missive was not factual ... perhaps he can provide the hard evidence - not gossip - to refute what I said. I very much doubt that he can.
Suffice to say that Dover has lost the Community Hospital - with all the trimmings that hard evidence shows that I asked for and won. Hard evidence also shows that the DDC-Scrutiny Committee also came to the same conclusion and members of that committee, along with Mr Prosser, Mr Aziz and other officers attended the KCC-HOSC on 5th September 2008 and openly supported this.
Of note, I was never invited by DTC to speak to them on the matter. Nor was Cllr Hannent in attendence at either of the KCC-HOSC hearings, nor did he submit any evidence.
The truth will out, Cllr Hannent, whether you like it or not.
Lorraine Sencicle.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
welcome lorraine, will look forward to reading you views on dover issues.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
this thread seems to be running hot and cold at the moment.i would like to hear davidhs version before i post again.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
the full general hospital was never on the cards.
the polyclinic or whatever people might call it, was the only likely option.
major hospitals at canterbury, ashford and margate always made the big hospital thing just a pipe dream.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,maybe so but i have had two hospital runs last week,the wife had two apointments for scans 1,at william harvey.2,qeqm at margate.having to public transport made the experiance rather daunting.so a full blown hospital in dover would a godsend.total cost for me excided £15 for ashford,bus,train,bus.margate wasnt to bad a £5.50p explorer ticket,not so bad for wifey with a bus pass.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Unfortunately (or fortunately) we are not in the 1800s and travel is something that can be done easily for the vast majority and we can't have all of the facilities that we want on our doorstep.
Deal doesn't have a full hospital and I don't expect it too - I would rather travel and have full services in Thanet, Canterbury and Ashford than have watered down, unefficient local services
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
Welcome Lorraine,now we should find out what happened at all the meetings,she is correct that DDC supported the hospital in the Town,and as I have said before the only reason Reg was backing another site was on a political basis only,guess what he is standing for election.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
reg is standing as an independent at county level.
most just disappear without trace when ego takes first place to their previously stated loyalties.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
paul,its not the traverling that worrys me,its the expence.
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Thank you to those who welcomed me and reading the others, it is apparent that a great deal of misconception has taken place - due to those seeking to revitalise their ailing political careers and ... this is at least a hundred times worse, those who have used the situation to ensure that Dover does not get what the town is entitled to.
Focusing just latter and the PCT/EKHUFT. To explain, the PCT buy the health services from, amongst others, the EKHUFT (who provide hospital services. The PCT also provide their own hospital services, including Deal Community Hospital.
Up until 1 April the EKHUT, as it was then, relied on the PCT for its earnings but once it gained the F - Foundation - Status, it could borrow to expand on its own behalf.
The internal market of the NHS Hospital Trusts these days relies on the earnings from selling services. Without Foundation status the EKHT sold mainly to the local PCT and although it could sell elsewhere in the UK, because it was unable to expand its competitive services it was unable to get much earnings that way.
To get the Foundation status, the Trust had to be financially viable ... and that led to the running down of Buckland Hospital, to save on staff wages - or to quote one officer, "it was cheaper for the patients to pay for travelling to WHH than for us to pay staff to go the opposit direction."
As said, once the Foundation status had been achieved then the Hospital trust could borrow. My argument was that they should borrow - or use grants - to bring the Hospital services of Dover to the stardard advised in the various government's White Papers - there was/is a grant anyway.
The EKUFT Governors - many of who are appointed - wanted to put the greater good of the Hospital Trust first by borrowing/spending some £200m+ on improving services at WHH, K&C and QEQM. From the profits gained by selling services to other areas, the money accrued ... it was said (and believe me they are very good at saying things), would be used to build upon the £20m facility that they are ?planning to build near the present Health Centre.
A week ago, if I had stated the above in public I would have been liable, as I have resigned, I am not.
Lorraine
