howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
who would pay him alex?
anyway getting back to mike's post 1226, i would disagree about the potential incomers going elsewhere for their shopping.
the changed demograph would encourage more up market shops to move to dover, we have heard cries in the past about why waitrose, debenhams and the like won't come here.
the answer has up until now been that it is not seen to be potentially profitable.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
You dont think Alexander, if there was all of this free money around to 'mangage the heritage ' that someone else owns, someone from a group that has voluntarily done this for the last decade or so would be jumping at the chance!!!
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
The bigger picture Howard is what some people don't believe in!
Some people are determined to want Dover to go totally to the dumps. Makes you wonder why people from out of the area like myself really bother!!
Been nice knowing you :)
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Or why people like me move to the area and commit ourselves to trying to improve it?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Chris #1237 ... the difference is that the two people you cite were nominated for a Freedomship ... that I played an important part in getting for DTC and WAS recognised as such by now ex-DTC councillors.
The award I was nominated for was the lowly Civic one. I do appreciate that others who were nominated at the same time as I was, like me did not fit 'the profile' and were also rejected. Further, I did the unforgivable thing, in DTC's eyes, of not only complained to the Audit Commission about the abuse of council taxpayers' money, but also made a fuss over the rejection. What was I called for doing these dreadful things that has recently led to my black listing by DTC...? I remember 'maliciously jealous unpleasant person'!!!
Sadly, the attitude expressed by DTC, not only in my case but also in others, has only served to alienate people who are/have been keen to work gratis, or use our money, on the town's behalf.
Returning to the Western Heights and Farthingloe, there are many who do not support the CGI proposal but DO care passionately for both places. However, if we suggest anyway forward, it is totally rejected by the 'official' carers of WH. This is no different in attitude to that of DTC.
Both Mike and Lara have come up with excellent ideas, Mike is assumed to be pro the CGI proposal, so has been accepted but Lara - ignored. I have suggested putting pressure on English Heritage - it worked back in the 1990s and is now being considered by Dover Society Executive - but I am against the CGI proposal, so again, not accepted.
These sorts of attitudes are not helpful to the future of the Heights, Farthingloe or the town in general.
Lorraine
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,706
Dover desperately needs to see inwards investment to create jobs, we cannot rely solely on what little money there is in the town to achieve this. I frankly have little care where this comes from, provided it comes.
Likewise I have no care or interest in past political infighting within the "leading lights" of the town and district, in truth iut distracts from the issue in hand, namely what is the best solution for both the Town, our exceptional historical heritage and our fantastic countryside.
We really do need to
a) deal with the FACTS relating to the CGI proposals, both in terms of what they say and the relevant legislation and planning guidelines
b) pull together all of the good ideas on this site and others and put together a proposal including funding sources and amounts for the restoration of the heights, their use as a tourist attraction and how jobs will created from this
c) work together (residents, local businesses, town team, DTC, DDC etc) to attract new businesses and new jobs to the town, utilising brownfield and town edge sites
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Right approach Ross, as stated by many others. Status quo & expectations of old solutions won't do the job.
Watty
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Really echoes my own comments Howard several postings ago that the current plans do not provide the guarantees and details of the funding available for the heritage so I cannot truely oppose/support any plan at present.
Still leaves them (and myself) to be open minded and consider the options available....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Thanks Howard for applauding Dover Societies response to the CGI submission ... However, DDC have classed the submission as 'neutral'! My husband is on the Executive and the Chairman and Deputy Chairman have been informed.
Great to read that Paul recognises that CGI are not able to provide the guarantees and details of the funding available for the heritage ... something we have been saying for the last few weeks.
OK, so the next step, if DDC also see that error of giving CGI planning permission, is to try to work together ... but is that possible?
Lorraine
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
I have recognised that for a long time and have already posted as such, and as I have stated CGI can't provide the details if EH don't provide any guidance, and EH won't agree to anything if there isn't any details. Vicious circle...
It doesn't mean they won't provide the details and I am sure they will work towards it, hence why Dover Society, like my own view, is currently neutral as the CGI plans cannot be fully supported or opposed as it currently stands.
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the official dover society report had 25 bullet points, a friend of mine who is a member sent me a copy but stressed the conclusion as vital to the debate.
Conclusion:
26 The application undoubtedly contains some harmful aspects, but these would be outweighed by the significant public and heritage benefits if they could be guaranteed and delivered at an early phase in the development and, if the outline application was approved, we and the public were to be consulted on final design, quality of build, use of materials etc.
We believe that the Dover Society has taken a reasoned and constructive approach to this application and, although we are not able to support it fully at this stage, with the satisfactory resolution of our concerns this could change.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
lorraine,after reading your posts i am getting negative vibes,it seems that you and a few others want to move forward and let dover go evan futher back,[deriliction seems to be faverit at the moment].if monies are put into the town and renivation monies is given to the hieghts to bring the drop redout/grand shaft up to a better condition then fair enough.if not well it may have to wait another 60 years for somthing to be done,by then the drop redoubt/grand shat may be a pile of rubble and a weed infested eyesour.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#1252 Howard - WHPS are yet to fully write up it's comments but they are very similar to those of the Dover Society.
A very sensible and open minded response, willing to listen and not slamming doors (and petitioning) against opportunities before the details are fully available....
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
sorry to see you describe our wonderful 200 year old staircase in the past tense brian.
anyway i think we need to forget english heritage as a driving force here, their operating figure for the year ending april 2011 at the castle alone was well over a million smackers.
they then decide to close for the winter and give the order of the boot to dedicated and qualified staff.
what chance the fortifications?
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
They need to help pay towards the £27million to move a road away from Stonehenge and a visitor centre a bus ride away !!!
Been nice knowing you :)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
good if investment is involved,bad if it isnt.the past tense is an issue that needs adressing.
the castle is over priced and out of reach of most people,evan as a member like yourself howard.thats one of the reasons i wont go up there.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Has anyone in WHPS or EH sounded out the Imperial War Museum regarding the heritage aspects of the WH?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
In what way Peter?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 685- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 85
Peter #1258, Great idea - why not?
Brian #1253 and #1257 yes, I am pessimistic ... things can start moving in Dover in the right direction. However, as a local historian, I am very much aware that once the cart starts trundling in the right direction, local politicians, looking to for personal accolades, jump on it, take over the reins and drive it into the nearest ditch!!!
Paul #1256, I appreciate that there is a major highway problem around Stonehenge ... I am also VERY MUCH aware that following the Western Heights Planning Inquiry of 1993 - which I won - and English heritage PROMISED to put profits from Dover Castle into funding work on WH. Nevertheless, after a few years, they stopped and DDC did not bother chasing them up - reason, they were no longer pursuing a tourism policy for Dover.
When I suggested that it is now up to us to put pressure on EH to put money where their mouth is, you Paul, were against upsetting them, as WHPS have to work with them.
Surely, WHPS are working for the good of Western Heights and English Heritage have let Western Heights down in a massive way - The National Ancient Monument is At Risk and not just from neglect. There are the developers looking for a quick buck; politicians looking for money from new housing development and a Chamber of Commerce that has forgotten that it once looked after the interests of Dover per se.
Lorraine