I ahve Keith , I just think it is time to see what WE ( deliberate use of capitals ) can do NOW ( ditto ) rather than relive the past feuds, arguements and slights that have held Dover back .
But as I said time for me to go
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Sarah P, as I said earlier, The Arboretum takes the twentieth century to begin with the Korean conflict, nothing is mentioned on it about the two global conflicts.
I should point out that the proposal has not been thrown together, so far at least four years of discussion and refining have gone into a plan that will respect those it commemorates and be a fitting addition to a valuable and breathtaking historical site. The benefits to Dover would be enormous and, as it would be well monitored, it will greatly reduce the vandalism the whole area suffers at the moment.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
sarah p
there are no feuds
just pointing out the same administration is still in place able to do something
but choose not to
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
It seems the WW memorial was proposed because it was not object of public consultation and no other proposal was allowed to be put forward.
It seems there are a number of WW memorials in the pipe, considering the one proposed for the Channel Dash. Our Dover coast will be lined with these memorials.
Not too sure though if they will attract millions of tourists.
A shame for the centuries of English and British sailors who sailed the seas. Quite a number of my Dovorian ancestry sailed the seas. But then there never was a public consultation on the memorials that should be put in place. Dash!
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Actually Alexander, the architect first came up with the idea because Britain was behind Europe in regard to commemorating the lost of the two world wars. He has never been paid to do this, devoting his time, resources and expertise into something he believes (as do many of us) that it is right for the memories of the fallen and for Dover. The architect himself has been at many meetings and every Western Heights open day showing the design and asking for opinions, it has also been in the local papers inviting everyone to give their views. There is also a website (
http://www.nationalwarmemorial.co.uk) for those who want more details. There is no case of "no other proposal being allowed" but rather that no one else has come forward with a proposal for Dover.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, I fully respect our war memorials, but believe we have enough of them dedicated to WW I and II. This alone is my point.
It is not in my opinion that crowds of people will stop over and read all the names of all the fallen British and Commonwealth soldiers. Usually, these names are written on local war memorials, where in a village, a town, a Parish church or a Cathedral, one can read the names of local soldiers who have fallen in a specific military campaign.
It does not appear logical to me that great crowds of tourists will be attracted by a millennium-style project bearing the names of millions of fallen soldiers.
So I'd have preferred we kept to standing customs, where the local soldiers fallen in battle or while in service, are recorded locally, as is the case already.
Generations of Dovorians and men of Kent have sailed the seas, many of my forbears among them, and I see no monument to them.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Alexander, the proposed memorial would, of course, include all the services and this is part of the point. At the moment all we have is the cenotaph as a centre for ceremonies honouring the fallen of the global conflicts. While this is nationally recognised it does, in fact, simply commemorate one unknown fallen soldier. As an educational aspect the proposed memorial would not only allow people to find the name of their relative (and see it honoured in an impressive setting) it would also show them in context with the enormity of the sacrifice made during those wars. What better way of teaching future generations that such wars should never happen again than by showing them exactly how many fell in order to preserve the liberty we still enjoy?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, how can a stone slab, or enormous projection of stone slabs, teach future generations anything? I use my children's bible for moral sermons.
Do you really believe millions of grandchildren and great grandchildren will come flocking to Dover to read a name among millions of names on a stone slab?
I think they already know what their grandfather or great grandfather went through.
They probably already have visited local monuments with their ancestors' names inscribed.
This monument of yours would become a monumental failure, if you're thinking of boosting Dover's share in tourism!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
alex,the memorial is real life not some bible story.try getting out more in the real world.try touring around lieper for a fortnight [thats 14 days.]
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
I am in favour of a memorial, be it a "stone slab" or some other form, if it is interesting enough many people of ALL ages will visit it for many years.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i rather like the one at the "battle of britain memorial" site, much smaller scale of copurse but always people looking at it and reading the names on there.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Brian, I have been through all these points you make. See reference to local war memorials.
They can be found in churches, cathedrals, train stations and elsewhere.
When in Calais, I stopped to read the names of the fallen men of Calais in the WWs.
Likewise in Dunkirke, at the train station, where an inscription is dedicated to the local railway workers who fell in the two WWs.
In Canterbury Cathedral I stopped to read the names of the fallen British soldiers, including the hundreds of Kentish men who fell in Afghanistan in the 1800s.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
alex,two you missed menin gate and thepvale.and allso lile gate lies a cemetary.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Alex not all families stay in the same town for generations. When it comes to the world wars we are talking parents up to great great grandparents. In purely practical terms it would be far easier to visit a national site rather than travel around the villages and towns looking for ancestors names. In the case of large modern cities, there are not always the 'local' war memorials as they rely on large nameless memorials, such as the Cenotaph.
Your doubts about its attractiveness to visitors does Dover a great disservice as it implies that you do not think much of the iconic status of the White Cliffs or truly value the depth of history to be found here.
"Honour your Mother and Father", this proposal seeks to do so for generations to come.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Chris, I greatly value Dover, but place no value in the proposed monument, which was undemocratically proposed, too.
You tried telling me that centuries of English and British sailors would be included in this monument on the grounds that all the Armed Services would be represented.
Hardly likely, as the WWs have nothing to do with those many sailors who embarked on ships before 1914.
My intentions for Dover are the very best, and not a disservice.
Whatever I propose is always ignored off anyway, constant antagonism!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Having stated that, it needs be added, that had such a memorial been proposed decades ago, it might have made sense. However, we do have Poppy Day, and the many memorial services nationwide for our Forces in the two World Wars.
In 2012, we should be looking towards Prosperity for the future, not looking back at building a millennium mega-memorial for past World Wars that are already commemorated.
I take it you intend to disqualify all existing war memorials in Britain and replace them with one almighty one in Dover?!
If such a war memorial were to attract the millions of visitors you propose, then I must assume Western Heights would become one gigantic parking place, where people risk being run over on the narrow road with its many bends.
What a fantastic disservice to our Heights, and to English Heritage. The spirit of intention in preserving an area is to preserve it, not ruin it. We would have one more pollution-infested area of Dover, where the traffic reigns supreme, and local people would give up going there!
From peace and quiet on Western Heights, we would have another busy Snargate Street style road system. Add to that the proposed hundreds of houses you want to build there!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
My motto is: Give me peace and quiet, and I'll pay you in Gold!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Alexander, in 2012 we are looking for "Prosperity for the Future" and this National War Memorial (and the regeneration of the Western Heights) will do just that for Dover.
I appreciate - and we all know, that you can't please all the people all the time and this is one such example.
Roger
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,897
Especially those with entrenched or possibly nimbyism views.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
jan
your comments you make are correct lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS