Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I was wondering why David hadn't been posting, but have no idea of the background to the dispute.
Hopefully it can be sorted out.
Ross, research and acquiring knowledge is essential when publishing a topic on the Web.
I could of-course supply sources, but I'm not intent on high-lighting the ideological differences between the Left and the Right in Greece, nor trying to give a one-sided view in support of any Greek party.
The reference is to the actual situation in Greece, which is worsening dramatically, and the idea that a party which has been democratically voted into a parliament in an EU country and is gaining in popularity, could be banned.
But research even over recent days has shown that many Greeks are fed-up with the politicians who have been and currently are governing there, possibly more than with the EU politicians as a whole.
We read of EU solidarity (EU funding for gratis, EU bailouts to be repaid with interest, EU offers to write of 50% of payments owed by Greece to western banks, in particular French and German banks which are most exposed to Greece, and of EU Austerity nooses placed on the neck of the Greek people in return for bailouts.....)
We may also read of Greek Orthodox Church solidarity, and Golden Dawn solidarity campaigns for the Greeks reduced to poverty, and who knows, perhaps even leftist campaigns of solidarity in Greece, if there are any such programmes from the socialist parties to promote donations to the poverty-stricken Greek people.
But the idea of banning a party in the EU is something that should deserve a place for discussion, lest it becomes a new policy to silence any opposition to the failed New Order.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
As far as I can see the argument with Golden Dawn is nowt to do with opposition to the austerity proposals and everything to do with their connections to fascism and criminality.
Sadly the Greek state and by direct extension its people were happy to spend years living way beyond their means and merrily borrowed money on the international bond market in the, as it turned out, misguided belief that they could keep rolling the debt over through the issuance of new bonds. Unfortunately for them a reality check was called for and it was found that essentially for the 4th time in 150 years the Greek state was bankrupt. Now if you or I were in this position the banks would be unlikely to agree to much if any reduction in our debt, why should an irresponsible nation be any different? The running up of huge governmental borrowing and the truly stupendous levels of tax avoidance/evasion within Greece was not some hideous conspiracy by a malevolent bunch of Eurocrats, it was the Greeks doing it to themselves.
Of course this does not fit with your world view.
As for banning a political party I actually agree that this is wrong and generally counter productive, however criminality and the breaking of the law of the land by members of any party should not be tolerated and should be dealt with appropriately
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Ross, did the Greeks ever have a vote on the Lisbon Treaty?
The French did, the Dutch did, and both said NO!
Then the EU cancelled the results of these democratic expressions and gave Ireland a vote, who also said NO.
Then the EU cancelled the vote till the Irish majority said "yes".
The EU has imposed every single iota of financial law that is imposed on every eurozone country and much of what is imposed on all EU countries. Your second paragraph seems oblivious to all this, sort of as if it (the paragraph) hatched yesterday!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
piffle poppycock.you and your dreamworld.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
are you serious? the Greek parliament voted by 250 to 42 with 8 abstentions on 11th June 2008 to ratify the Lisbon Treaty.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
aparently yes ross,sounds a bit missguieded to me.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Yes, Ross, no-one disputes that all EU-member parliaments voted in favour of the Lisbon Treaty, but a referendum is a democratic expression of the people of a country. The EU has trampled over Democracy, as noted in my above post.
The EU financial system has been imposed on many countries, and it's anyone's guess what false promises and behind-the-scenes handling went on to convince or coerce governments into getting their parliaments to vote for any EU imposed treaties.
When the former Greek prime minister Papantreu (PASOK) decided for a Greek referendum on the bailout/Austerity proposals earlier this year, the German and French heads of government summoned him to a "dinner" and a few days later he was booted out of the Greek parliament. This was a foreign-imposed decision on the Greek parliament carried out through threats!
NO referendum may be held in any EU member state on EU decisions, Ross, without the EU dictatorship warning the governments that the result MUST be YES, or that they must not have a referendum at all.
That which is going on in Greece is directly the cause of a failed dictatorship trying to abolish Sovereignty and Democracy while imposing a financial and economic system that has led many a country into financial ruin.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
1. why would there need to be a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, unless the Greek parliament/government clearly signalled that was their intent? If not then this is the sort of thing democratically elected parliaments are there to do.
2. Do you have any proof to support your contention in your second paragraph or is it just wild conjecture?
3. did you mean Georgios A. Papandreou? this wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papandreou is a pretty good summation of his career and the last days as Greek PM or do you have actual evidence to support your view he was booted out of the Greek parliament
4. again what real evidence do you have to support the contention in the final paragraph or are you again making assumptions
I am no supporter of the current EU structures or the self styled political elite across Europe in general, however unsubstantiated, apparently poorly researched and completely uncorroborated with references arguments really dont cut it
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Oh Ross!
Perhaps one day the EU (whatever: leaders of government who have taken EU decisions into their own hands, cabinet ministers of EU countries, the EU commissars or whatever they call themselves nowadays, head of the European Central Bank, and whichever other authority makes EU decisions) will be summoned - requested - to hand over the protocols of all secret and not-so-apparent-secret meetings they have had, so that the minutes (is that the right word?) be made publicly known.
Then all your questions will be answered.
Yes, I do have the strong suspicion that the former Greek prime minister was coerced out of office by other heads of government/state in order to prevent him calling a referendum on Austerity measures in Greece, and that this is the cause for the worsening plight and troubles of the Greeks.
I would have to ask for the details - the protocols - of all meetings concerning this matter to be made public. Then you could have a more precise answer.
At the moment I'm not intent on doing so. Perhaps the Greeks will in their desperation.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
so simply put then the answers to my questions are no, no, yes, no and no
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Protocols, Ross, with the minutes! The authorities who have made EU decisions on treaties, annulling referendums, coercing prime ministers out of office, should provide these!
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
roll on friday.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
What's happening on Friday, Brian? Other than The Fabric Fairy's Christmas dinner, of course.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Before Friday and the end of the world we have one other decimal date/time thingy to celebrate.
Tomorrow at little after eight pm the time & date will be...
20:12.20:12,2012.
Three hours forty eight minutes later...boom!!
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
exactly tom,but not before i pick up my euromillions cheak of£81 million quid.