Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i think cameron and osbourn now need to say sorry for all there enuendos they have spluterd.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I Have not had the time to read the four pages on this but will say. Mr Brown has not had agood time of it from day1, but say this for him he has not walked away from it,just got on with it and at times that has taken guts to do that. As you all know I am not a red or blue but even I can see that he is doing O.K. and is working his way through it all and I think at the end he will come out a winner, its a big well done from me. But time will tell,but even if he has been wrong, he can hold his head up high and say well I done my best.
I remain yours faithfully VIC m
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Not quite sure I know what world you two are in
Brown will undoubtedly go down in history as our worse Chancellor and PM in history. That will be his legacy and the only real question is will his premiership and maybe his Government survive until Christmas.
There will be worse to come for him and it is going to be pretty constant too.
Sid Pollitt
What a worse chancellor than Reggie Maudlin? No. Surely not. There cant have been a worse one that Norman Lamont ever ever. Have you forgot him?
Oh, you're not going to keep up a he's worse than that, no he's not game are you BarryW? If so, I'm not playing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Actually it was Nigel Lawson who set Norman Lamont up for a fall by shadowing the DMark and then by John Major for joining EMU. Norman was left with a bad hand to play having to obey the rules of the EMU. As for old Reggie Maudling, well before my time, but he certainly never left the country in a state worse than it is now, no Chancellor ever has done. Yes, Brown does take the biscuit, 12 years in control and just look at the state of things.
Fraser Nelson over at the Spectator has written an excellent and entertaining piece about Brown and his cabal that is well worth a read. Its not just about economic matters but the overall tone of Government as it has been influenced by Brown. It shows how he has been very bad news for Labour as a Party and is not entirely complimentary to the Conservatives. Take a look.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3543631/the-fall-of-the-masters-of-the-political-universe.thtmlSid Pollitt
Der, how can you say that Brown is the worse in history when you say Reggie was before your time? If the early 70s are before your time then with that limited knowledge you cannot say worse in history or any such sweeping statement BarryW. Didnt Maudling get involved in the Poulson affair? You could say the worse this century or the worse that aint a Tory maybe. Trouble is BarryW that the other side of that coin is that Brown/ Darling or Brown/ Blair are the best this century, no doubt in that at all !!!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Sid - what you refer to is nothing like the disaster we have now, wake up to what has happened over the last 12 years.
Nothing Brown did as Chancellor has turned out to be right with just one exception, keeping us out of the clutches of the Euro.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
BarryW
What has happened has happened and no amount of whinge-ing about Brown or the Labour Govt will change anything.History may well read it differently but surely the best thing for the whole country is that we use all of our resources,brains and experts to pull us out of this crisis even though reports now indicate a "glimmer of hope" in the economy.
I wasn't too happy about the Charge of the Light Brigade or Nelson losing his life at Trafalgar (he should not have worn his dress uniform!) but whether you like it or not we all have to try and work with the Govt in an attempt to drag Britain back from the brink.
The " who whys and wherefores " can be discussed later by politicians historians and the like.And I am sure that in a few hundred years Tony Robinson and his Time Team will be shuffling around the rubble of the Palace of Westminster library and bars looking for clues and broken bits of wine bottles but until then ...we have a war on our hands and that war is with the global economic crisis so we should all pull together.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
rather a pointless and silly argument about who is/was the best chancellor or PM.
the two most loved or hated pm's in my lifetime have been mrs thatcher and mr blair.
all depends on personal taste.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The difference is, Marek, that Lord Cardigan is no longer in charge. Brown is, but not for much longer, thankfully, 15 months tops.
Lets move this on because, yes you are right this thread is in danger of starting to get stale. Never mind, there is more to come apparently.
I have pointed out that there are more hints at more problems for Brown. Hat tip to Samizdata for this info.
An article in PRWeek by David Singleton, yesterday, a 'well-placed source' told PRWeek there was mounting fear in Downing Street that fresh revelations about senior MPs could emerge. Several people very close to Brown, including Ministers, are highly vulnerable to fresh stories being revealed by journalists who were fed smear stories by the Brown cabal.
Downing Street insiders have been leaking information about 'endless conference calls and crisis meetings' since the story of McBride's smear operation emerged. They say Downing Street is in meltdown and those emails are not the worst thing that Brown's operation has done.
Apparently the PM's defence was looking increasingly fragile.
We will see no doubt. A lot of people seem to be looking for revenge against Brown and I recon we are in for a very interesting summer period. How much truth is in this and how much real evidence remains to be seen but it sure looks as if the death of this Government is going to be incredably painful.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think that the opposition would love some more revelations.
saves them having to think up policies.
let us be clear here, the lords and the commons have exposed themselves as rotten to the core, not every individual, of course.
the arrogance of long term government is showing through, it is like the last 2 years of the major administration.
the people who actually matter, the general public, will gain nothing by his rubbish stuff.
i picked up the telegraph yesterday, it seemed like every page was full of rumour and innuendo about the e mail affair.
i expect that from the mail and express, but when the true blue telegraph finds no space for serious reporting, things have come to a pretty bad state.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
However you view it howard we are seeing this Government's death throes and it is a fascinating spectator sport.
Speaking about the 'Spectator', the points I made above are staring to seep into a wider audience and the Spectator itself is now drawing attention to the PRWeek article.
You can see it here.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3546151/how-big-couldsmeargate-get.thtml
They got it from Politicalbetting.....
Sid Pollitt
Just to let you know, the next debate will be about the perceived outcome of the budget which we'll be told by BarryW is going to terrible before we even know what's in it.
And talking of tactics didnt BarryW tell us that a 'well-placed source' told PRWeek there was mounting fear in Downing Street that fresh revelations about senior MPs could emerge. Isnt this the type of nudge and dark art tactics we were so horrified by earlier in the week? The difference is exactly?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
A huge difference and if you cannot see it then that is down to you, Sid. I have just pointed the way to information leaking from no10 that has appeared in very reputable publications.
As for the budget, no10 has been playing a game of managing expectations with careful leaks. I have been saying what is obvious to anyone who follows economic news. I am indeed looking forward to the discussion on next week's budget and, as usual, will post on it once I have absorbed and understood the detail and not react in a knee jerk fashion to the superficial budget speech.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I see two further stories are emerging about no10, Ed Balls, the Education Minister, has been linked to the scandal as being the one who was in charge of the unit that devised the smear campaign and a senior Labour official is now also identified with this.
Then this appeared on Guido's website last night..
----------
+++ Smeargate II +++
More revelations on this blog tomorrow...
Tags: Labour Party
at April 18, 2009 at 9:12 pm
----------
So - this is a story that is still set to run and run, just what is Guido going to reveal today sometime? We will see.
Things really are going from bad to worse for this Government and they deserve all that is being thrown their way.
Incidentally, someone (howard perhaps without checking back) reconed that this is of interest only to the Westminster bubble. Evidence is now to hand that it reaches well beyond Westminster from two polls published today showing Conservative leads of 17% and 19%, wheras the last polling cycle had leads of 10% to 12%.
Happy days.
Smears and leaks, they happen to all governments, some are true and some aren't but the damage is done whatever. All governments will become corrupt without the appropriate safeguards, and they will never be put in place by the governments themselves.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Follow-up on my previous. Guido is implicating Kevin Maguire on the smears plot and is asking some very pointed questions suggesting that the smears are much more tightly linked to the Labour Party than has been claimed so far. He seems light on evidence, mostly circumstancial. It is still rumbling away though.
His latest comments are here
http://www.order-order.com/
I have just found a fascinating article on Brown's record that utterly demolishes the man. Well worth a read.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/5178686/How-Gordon-Brown-became-The-Gordfather.html
An extract: quote """In Brown's world, power is more important than performance. Until the "bust", Brown relied upon spending billions and distorting statistics to retain power. In pursuit of a fundamentally flawed economic policy, he trumpeted disingenuous statements about his "golden rule" of balancing the budget to conceal Britain's growing debts and the inevitable recession. Over the past months, that trusted ruse was exposed, confirming Britain's unprecedented financial plight."""""
Sid Pollitt
To misquote Nye Bevan, show me your spin and I'll show you mine.