Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
25 January 2011
07:4290151I have just heard on Jersey local radio news that 4 youths were stabbed in Folkestone last night and that subsequently one lad has died of his wounds.What a tragic waste of a young life.How very sad for the families involved.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
25 January 2011
08:0190154The ones involved were of middle eastern origin according to BBC local news, as you say sad for the families.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
25 January 2011
08:0590155God, that is awful.
How do you change the knife culture ? I thought TB when he was in power, said anyone caught with a knife would get a custodial sentence - never happened though did it ? Too many "bleeding-hearts" saying no, now we have too many bleeding hearts.
Roger
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
25 January 2011
08:2790160acording to news reports 1 dead 3 seriously injured and several minor injuries,marine terrace folkstone closed off for police investigation.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
25 January 2011
12:2290193We certainly need more, and not less, police.
Guest 706- Registered: 25 Oct 2010
- Posts: 285
25 January 2011
14:3290200We may sympathise and call it tragedy but,ultimately,it is their choice to fight to the kill.
It is probably indocrinated into the youth from Afghanistan to uphold this culture.
And,do you know what,this scares me silly.
To think that their ways are here. To think that people that I may walk past in town possibly and probably have a knife on them.
I've just heard that there were around 30 people aged between 15 to 18.
Now that is a tragedy that they are so young and have that need
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
25 January 2011
16:1790207Has it been announced they are from Afghanistan I was not home in time to see the local TV news. The Middle East stretches from Turkey to Afghanistan.
Flick knives were carried by some way back when I was young, knife carrying is nothing new, think of the flick knife very popular amongst the bad boys.
The 18year old lad that did the Dover shooting was French, white and was known to have carried a knife in the past, culture does not come into his background.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 January 2011
17:1590212the incident in folkestone involved afghans only.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
25 January 2011
19:1790233Why are they here fighting each other ? They should be back in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban.
Why are our soldiers fighting and dying over there, so they can do the same over here in Folkestone ?
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 January 2011
19:2390235roger
the taleban are seen by many afghans as the people that bring law and order to their country.
without them ordinary people are prey to thugs, war lords and assorted highwaymen.
that is what worries me about afghans coming here, we may be getting the dodgy ones.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 January 2011
20:0290243it now transpires that there had been tensions between the ethnic groups there for same time, police have been working at cooling things down.
hard to believe that people can travel halfway across the world and abuse our hospitality in this way.
this will cost the tax payer a fortune, the people held speak 3 different dialects, so three seperate translators will be employed.
i now someone that does this, the job is a licence to print money.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
25 January 2011
23:5990284Roger, our soldiers are involved in a war that is as old as Afghanistan. If I am not mistaken, all Afghan men carry weapons in Afghanistan for thousands of years. The oldest written history of Afghanistan can be found in books about Alexander the Great.
I think the country was called Oxonia and Scythia then.
Officially our soldiers were sent there to train Afghan police and soldiers, but the Soviet soldiers were also sent to Afghanistan in 1978 to train Afghan soldiers.
Both theirs and ours ended up fighting a war of Afghans against Afghans.
The Red Army pulled out, and I daresay we will do the same!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
26 January 2011
07:5790294I appredciate all that Alexander, especially the might of the Russian Army not winning (or us for that matter). The Taliban have an unending supply of cannon fodder probably from various supporting countries and weapons from Iran.
Our towns and cities are changing for the worse because of these types of incidents; thankfully they are rare in our neck of the woods but much more prevalent in larger towns and cities across the Country.
Intregration, not segregation is what should be happening. sadly it's the other way round and we'll end up with serious problems everywhere.
Roger
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
26 January 2011
12:4990324I agree we should have integration but it needs to be from both sides, foreigners need to mix with the indiginous population not form their own isolated communities.
A lot of the Eastern Europeans that have been here for a few years now still speak very little English, they come into the shop and expect us to understand them or they get their children to translate. I do not expect them to have an extensive vocabulary but enough to make themselves clearly understood. They all seem to be able to ask if an item is gold even though it only costs £1.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
27 January 2011
00:5990366indeed Jan, but that is the failing of multi-culturism - it has actually created divided communities and ghettos
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
27 January 2011
02:2290367Multi-culturalism and integration are two exact opposite themes.
To add to it, in the case of the Folkestone scene, they were all from the same cultural background, from the same country.
One could consider Lebanon, where the people are largely of the same ethnic origin, have been so for centuries, and speak the same language, and yet are strongly entrenched in different groups: Christian, Sunni and Sciite, and also Druids. If something goes wrong in the precarious set-up of the government, the whole area risks igniting.
Another case was Bosnia, with people speaking the same language and ethnically very similar.
In these two examples, we can see that the people who inhabit the same area are practically of the same ethnic origin and speak the same language, and often lived in the same streets.
In each case, in Lebanon and in Bosnia, there are different armies or armed forces, or different divisions in the same army, based on diverse factors that we in Britain cannot comprehend.
Many African countries have a similar internal division, based on tribal distinction, even though they often speak the same language. Somalia, Congo, Nigeria, and quite a few other African states where wars or violent uprisings have flared up all over a sudden, taking the whole world by surprise.
It's not that easy to secure either multi-culturalism or integration.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
27 January 2011
07:3890370Of course they are Alexander, that's why I said it (post 13). Tribalism isn't restricted to Africa.
Roger
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
27 January 2011
18:4090432Our special forces were originally sent to Afghanistan to train the Mujahideen resistance against the Soviet invaders who were propping up a corrupt Government. After the Russians withdrew the Mujahideen became the Taliban.
We reap where we sowed, and no foreign army has ever won a war in Afghanistan.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
27 January 2011
18:4290433exactly peter, afghanistan is a no win for any foreigners that fancy their chances.
even the "invinicible" red coats got a bashing there.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
27 January 2011
18:5890436Actually, the Taliban took over from the Mujahedin, as these latter, based on tribal differences, were continually fighting each other after the Afghan Communist government packed up.
But the Taliban, who are Pashtun, never took control in northern Afghanistan, where the local Uzbek and Tajik forces held out. Their bigest mistake was probably to have tried conquering these northern areas, of a complete different ethnic set-up, and also not to have sent away Bin Laden, who probably was still posing as an ally to conquer northern Afghanistan.
After Alexander the Great passed thropugh Oxonia and Scythia, modern-day Afghanistan, and entered nowadays Pakistan, his soldiers were so fed up, that they went on a 70 day strike of protest, until their general decided to give the order to turn back, direction Macedonia. Common sense prevailed in the Macedonian army.