Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
#1
Before you start, I do not have any problem with profit or with rich people (except the greedy ones).
If businesses are not successful, we all will not be successful.
I do have a problem with below.
I cannot see the fairness or how this will help everyone that is on the breadline already and struggling to survive?
Power firms paid out £7billion to shareholders while bills for ordinary customers have rocketed.
The cash was given by the Big Six energy companies amid fears that fuel bills will hit a new high this autumn.
EDF Energy's owners dished out a huge £1.87billion in dividends, followed by E.ON with £1.5billion.
Iberdrola, the owner of Scottish-Power, paid £1.37billion, while RWE, which owns npower, paid £967million.
SSE handed out £717million while British Gas owner Centrica's dividends were £575million.
At the same time the typical dual fuel bill has risen £140 from £1,170 a year ago to £1,310 now, according to energy watchdog Ofgem.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#2
how does this stack up
if we the customer just get higher bills in the future?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#3
There is, from time to time - instance to instance - , an upside to BOGOF deals. If and when such deals are on stock, non perishable items. Lugging home twice as many tins of beans one week could mean not having to tote any the following week, for instance.
But, I fancy that such 'deals' are there to help the store out in the first instance and to make it look like there is something in it for the consumer, which also provides an up-side for the store in question.
Asking why such commodities are not simply sold at half price will only get you a pat upon the head.
What has any of this to do with energy costs to the consumer, you ask.
IF, it could be arranged that the lowest possible energy tariff was applicable to the initial tranche of domestic usage and that the costs rose from there; that you pay more the more you use, but can light and heat your home cheaply. I fear I am in line for some more head-patting for even suggesting this, alas.
The problem would be the setting of that initial cheap-rate. The problem being that coming to know just what that level of usage is, is a simple matter...a far too simple matter. (we would be told)
The crux of the matter would then shift back to profit levels:While a price for the initial level of usage could be calculated, it would merely be the total wished for/ expected profit divided by the number of domestic customers, and be set to go higher from there.
An OFFWATT regulatory mechanism focused upon the benefit of the consumer (and 'green' issues) could set the initial tariff and allow the cards to fall as they may, but then we would have a hen with teeth. What are the chances of that?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
#4
How on earth can these companies justify these massive payouts when their customers are struggling to pay their bills in todays financial climate
I'm almost speechless
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#5
The conservative government shafted the public selling of the utilities.
As prices increase, this one will come back on them, and cost them votes
And labour could have prevented it.
All they needed to do was to say, they would take back the utility without
Compensation,Only a fool would have parted with cash.
Every penny going to shareholders is cash robbed from the Infrastructure.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
#6
The dangers of Privatization are evident in many areas NHS,Police,Utilities etc,etc......
But with Utilities there is a case with Water and Energy to think about taking control in order
to safeguard supplies for the nation now and in the future..........
Somebody recently asked for `Fairness` and `Fair` to be defined .....what a plonker....
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#7
It would appear now that the simple consumer is the one paying the bills and yet, rather than supply and demand governing prices, the financial markets control desired profit levels. We no longer live in a world where price is based on cost of materials, transport, packaging and a reasonable profit level. Now prices are dictated by the need to keep share-holders and directors getting a large bonus every year in case they sell their shares or move to a company that keeps upping the bonuses. It is no longer the real world market place of commodities that rules our lives but the more rarefied (and arguably imaginary) world of financial transfers that push up the cost of living. The people that grow, produce or manufacture our daily staples are subservient to those who spend all day playing with calculators.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#8
that does rather sum things up, we see the supermarket giants making ever larger profits and their suppliers struggling as never before.
good point from keith b also on the subject of privatisation of utilities.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#9
yes howard your correct as is keith b and collette
well over to cameron
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
#10
Keith #5
You are right and I could not agree more.
The question I have to ask, is why Labour are not jumping in and at least trying to stop these disgraceful acts?
We all know this is a tough time and I can even agree with BarryW saying tough measures and decisions need to be made.
However, it is glaringly obvious that the cuts that being made are extremely unbalanced and unfair.
This situation above, proves that.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#11
Previous Tory governments made a mistake by going down the privatisation route for the big utilities. They should have been mutualised, to be run on a not-for-profit basis and owned and controlled in perpetuity by their stakeholders.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#12
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#13
Another part of the problem is that pension-funds buy shares in these companies and the pension funds then pay out the pensions - I know it's obvious, but if there are no profits, there's no (or greatly reduced) pensions.
I think that maybe Peter's idea of the various utility companies being mutualised, instead of privatised and the stakeholders (the users) not being taken for a ride.
I'm sure if there weren't utility companies to buy shares in, they'd buy other company shares.
Roger
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#14
I wonder how much of each £1 paid in, to a pension fund, one expects to get back?
Do pension pay-outs jump every time a company pays out it's dividend?
If one were to pay an extra £1 due to a price-hike from the utility company one's pension is invested in would one get more or less than that £1 back in increased pension pay-out?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#15
Not quit the picture Thatcher portrayed to us was it!
Don't forget to tell, SID
UK Consumers: Who owns your energy?
Understandably, as consumers we are very much focused on getting the cheapest gas and electricity bills that we can. There are very few of us that actually give any thought to the 'bigger picture' of who we are actually paying to supply our energy. This is a particular issue in these difficult economic times - anything that can lower our household bills is welcome.
With this in mind, we felt that it would be useful to compile a list of the current 'big six' energy suppliers in the UK, with details on who really controls these companies.
 E.ON - Based in Dusseldorf, Germany, completed take over of Powergen in 2002.
 EDF (Électricité de France) - Paris based, produced 22% of EU Electricity in 2003, 74.5% of which was from Nuclear Power.
 NPower - It's parent comapny is german giant RWE
 Scottish Power - Controlled by Iberdola, a huge Spanish Utilities company
 British Gas - Centrica ltd took over the British Gas name in the UK
 Scottish and Southern Energy - Based in Perth, Scotland since its inception in 1998
So, there we are - as you can see there are some rather intersting results in there. If you get your power from E.ON, EDF, NPower or Scottish Power, you are essentially further swelling the coffers of some of the biggest utilities companies in Europe. British Gas parent company Centrica is at least UK based, but has significant interests in Europe and North America - how can we be sure that our money is being re-invested in improving their UK energy supply?.
Scottish and Southern Energy, established in 1998 with the merger of Scottish Hydro and Southern Electric is the second largest supplier of natural gas and electricity in the UK. It's headquarters are in Perth, Scotland.
Of course, all of these companies are in the energy business to make money from us, no matter where they are based. However, surely we should be more concsious of who we are paying for our energy in the future.
PS. Don't forget to tell fritz
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#16
The fact that some choose to forget looking back through rose tinted glasses is just how dreadful the old nationalised monopolies were, inefficient and expensive.
Tom - utility shares are indeed a favourite of pensions, sometimes the dividend received is re-invested to grow a pension fund and sometimes it is paid out to pensioners directly or indirectly though drawdown contracts. There is no such thing 'pay-outs jumping' in your context as in a fund there tends to be a steady flow from a diverse portfolio of assets and it is the overall performance over a long period of time to which the utility dividends contribute that matters. Utility companies are a relatively low capital risk (relative to other equities that is - they still go up and down) that makes them good for pension funds along with a steady dividend. These companies need investment and investors are attracted by the dividend flow rather that great growth prospects. Take the dividends away and there will be less investment.
It is not only pension funds that invest of course, OEICs, Unit Trusts and Investment Trusts will also seek to hold some utilities in the portfolios. When a fund manager chooses an investment they will be looking either for a good dividend earner or a company with high growth potential possibly in newish industries. Some managers specialise in one or the other type of stocks.
The simple truth here is that the beneficiary of the dividends utility companies pay are the people reading this thread. You need not own a share in one of these companies yourself of course, just own a pension or other investment with equities in it, Stocks and Shares ISAs for instance. If you do not have such a thing, then perhaps you should.
Anyone can look into the underlying assets of their pension or Stocks and Shares ISA and I am sure you will see British Gas or the other power companies among those assets, yes even the European ones.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#17
I think we would have preferred an honest, non profit deal on water gas and electricity
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#18
keithb yes you are correct
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#19
There is nothing at all dishonest about this. What is dishonest about your pension investing in our utilities and you benefiting from decent returns?
There is always profit and there is nothing wrong with that.
'Non-profit' what does that mean? nothing at all, codswallop.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#20
oh dear barryw
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
