howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 September 2010
15:0968968just heard on the news that eurotunnel had a great july and august shipping across half a millions cars, up 17% on last year.
one day alone in august they shipped 1500 cars and 150 coaches.
with all the price cutting involved i wonder if their was an increased profit though.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 September 2010
16:3268971HOWARD
They have made a profit this year, and thats grand, but they were millions in debt prior to this wasn't they?
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 September 2010
17:2368975you are right about profits in the last financial year, but i am referring to the recent cost cutting and increase in number of units.
my suspicion is that the new rates are either loss leaders or merely breaking even, companies tend to do this when trying to grab a bigger market share from their rivals.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
6 September 2010
17:5368976Their cost-cutting is causing all sorts of problems with the ferries; that's why LD Lines stopped, because too much traffic is using the shuttle, especially trucks.
It's a loss-leader that isn't doing anyone any favours.
Roger
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 September 2010
19:3768996LD accounts for such a small percentage of capacity that they really don't matter. Eurotunnel's pricing is designed to maintain Market share during the downturn, leaving Dover with excess capacity. With the ever-increasing size of ships on the Dover-Calais route, Dover's T2 is an irrelevance for a good many years. Unless of course al-Qaeda do a 9/11 on the tunnel.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 September 2010
19:3868998along with another tunnel fire.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 September 2010
19:5669010With tunnel fires, it's more a question of when than whether.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
6 September 2010
22:1269046Howard, if Eurotunel does the shipping, then Dover Port must be sending trains under the Channel!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
6 September 2010
22:1269047howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 September 2010
22:1869055alexander
the term shipping simply means movement of goods whether by air, road or sea.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
6 September 2010
22:2069057ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 September 2010
22:2669060keith
worked in freight forwarding for 30 years.
good point about competition, remember speed ferries trying to under cut the big boys?
waste of time, fair competition is just an illusion.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 September 2010
23:2669066This is one area where size matters. Ferry companies have to get their cost per shipped lane-metre as low as possible, this can best be done with bigger ships.
But wasn't David vs Goliath unfair competition? A bit like Charlie vs DHB methinks.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
7 September 2010
06:4969076Keith - competition is healthy, unfair competition isn't, in fact, I believe it's illegal.
A bit like SeaFrance and their state subsidies, no other ferry company could take their losses and still be financially supported - and operating.
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
7 September 2010
06:5469078ROGER
You are such a nice guy, but your views ref compitition a little wide of the mark.
You will find most compitition will be done in an unfair way.
All will be undercutting others.
Whether its Eurotunnel, supermarkets, etc etc
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Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
7 September 2010
07:1469080Keith - Just a small piece on "Unfair Competition"
Unfair Competition law: an overview
The law of unfair competition is primarily comprised of torts that cause an economic injury to a business through a deceptive or wrongful business practice. Unfair competition can be broken down into two broad categories. First, the term "unfair competition" is sometimes used to refer only to those torts that are meant to confuse consumers as to the source of the product. The other category, "unfair trade practices", comprises all other forms of unfair competition.
Unfair competition does not refer to the economic harms involving monopolies and antitrust legislation. What constitutes an "unfair" act varies with the context of the business, the action being examined, and the facts of the individual case.
Two common examples of unfair competition are trademark infringement and misappropriation. The latter involves the unauthorized use of an intangible assets not protected by trademark or copyright laws. See also Right of Publicity. Other practices that fall into the area of unfair competition include: false advertising, "bait and switch" selling tactics, unauthorized substitution of one brand of goods for another, use of confidential information by former employee to solicit customers, theft of trade secrets, breach of a restrictive covenant, trade libel, and false representation of products or services.
The Competition Act 1998 and Article 82 the EC Treaty incorporated in British law by the European Communities Act 1972 prohibit the abuse of a dominant position.
A dominant position in competition law refers to a situation where an enterprise is not constrained by competition. This might be, for example:
• A monopoly (e.g. a water company).
• A dominant position in a local market, if buyers will not travel long distances (e.g. for funeral services).
• A dominant position in supplying spare parts or intellectual property licenses, even if there is effective competition for the main product (e.g. a car maker).
• A discretionary power to determine who is allowed to supply in a market (e.g. on safety grounds).
Abuse of a dominant position is the misuse of the power associated with a dominant position. Examples include:
• Ceasing to provide services which have no effective substitute (including constructive denial through unfair prices) in a way that excludes competitors.
• Using a dominant position to exclude competitors, e.g. through predatory targeting of special offers.
• As a dominant supplier to a trade, setting prices and terms that place some customers or types of customers at a competitive disadvantage.
• Exploiting abnormal restrictions on competition, e.g. high prices that take advantage of illegal activity.
This does not mean that businesses do not have the right to choose their trading partners, to compete on price or capacity, to offer different prices to different customers, or to extract rents or profits. But those who hold a dominant position have a special responsibility not to use their dominant position for an improper purpose, or to use their power beyond what is needed for legitimate purposes.
Roger
7 September 2010
07:4869084I can't believe anyone feels sorry for the ferry company's, They've been ganging up on the tunnel for years, fixing prices to ensure they retain market share etc. etc.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
7 September 2010
07:4969085ROGER
I understand where your coming from
but will agree to disagree
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Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
8 September 2010
03:2869279I am not so sure that Eurotunnel is in the great shape that everybody seems to be assuming. They only just broke even last year with a hairline profit of €1.4m. They made a loss of €45 million in the first half of this year. They carried 533,238 cars in July and August combined but the Dover ferries carried 404,467 cars in July (+10,959 coaches) and 489,833 cars in August (+8,096 coaches).
They have increased their carryings of trucks but it is from a low base after losing a great deal of custom to the ferries when contracts were not renewed in 2009 after the fire at the end of 2008.
They have a debt mountain of €3.65 billion and need to start repaying the principal in 2013. This is ten times what the Port of Dover is expected to be sold for. That is after writing off some £6 billion - estimates of the original cost of the tunnel vary from £9bn to £12bn which is some thirty times what our port is thought to be worth.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
8 September 2010
08:1869290ED
Thought so
thanks for the info
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