Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
#1
The EU treaty was signed yesterday by 25 of the 27 member countries.
The treaty was to stop member countries spending beyond their means.....we are told continually that is what
Cameron/Osborne wants us to do..........why then did he not sign .............
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#2
Cameron is out there paddling his own canoe. Shouting from a lonely tributary stream as the main river slowly and giantly rolls by in harmonious tranquility. Well okay..perhaps not total tranquility, but there seems to be a fair amount of stabilisation recently. Cameron holds press conferences immediately after these summits to emphasise that his role is making a difference...but the reporters reporting dont quite believe him, do they, scepticism abounds, they dont quite beleive he is making much difference to the weight of things.
He still has an ally in the shape of the Czech Republik...so feel re-assured.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#3
I suspect that he (Dave) may be of the opinion that this treaty is designed solely to reduce the donations to the Conservative Party from big-business.
In much the same way that high-streets must have clusters of sex-shops...so not to curtail the ambitions of big-businesses who may (do!) donate to the Conservative Party.
Doubtless someone who has the right perspective will set me/us on the correct path.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#4
That was not the primary purpose of the treaty, which was 1. To bring national budgets under Brussels control and 2. To enable Brussels to force EU members to bail each other out. Both would have involved an unacceptable surrender of sovereignty to Europe.
Rather disingenuous of you Reg, to say on the one hand that Dave and George want to spend beyond the country's means, while saying on the other that their actions to cut the deficit are too aggressive.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#5
Thank heaven Dave has saved us?
It is true that the EU thing is not what it was and not what it was supposed to be. The real pity is that member states cannot redefine their role for themselves.
This is surely a Euro-Zone issue and should be addressed as such.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#6
Well Tom - despite your first sentence we can agree at least on the other.
It is indeed a Euro-zone thing and we should play no part in any bail-outs and should tell them straight to 'de-couple' from that disastrous currency gamble.
The good thing is that our journey out of the EU can only be speeded up by the EU's continued insanity.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#7
And immediately Spain & Netherlands produce figures that fail to match the Treatry requirement.
What hope is there that this is enforcable when the last agreed figure was constantly breached by member states to no sanction?
It's like Gordon Brown's "Golden Rule" nobody would define when the economic cycle started. One of the reasons why we are in the current financial mess.
Watty
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#8
peter,yourself,barryw and watty keep banging on about losing sovereignty.to bo honest i cant see how we can lose it.none of the other members has lost theres yet despite rigouras campaning by eurosceptics,truth twisting and a dirty tricks campaine to get us out of the eu.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#9
We are in this mess, in the main, because money was way too cheap and there were way too few and too light regulation(s).
Yes let us agree...this is a Euro-zone problem. Pity though that the banking crisis wasn't left to be just a bank problem
Things are yet far too skewed so that private misfortune=public expense and private fortune=private fortune.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
#10
Hardly harmonious and far from tranquil PaulB! We're not in the Eurozone so why should the PM have signed up for something few in this country believe in.
Personally I think it's time we pulled out altogether - and maybe save a few billion quid into the bargain.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#11
Dave could not sign the EU Treaty, indeed no British PM could sign it without first becoming a dictator. Last year a vote was passed through Parliament that prevents any further sovereignty being signed over to the EU without a referendum.
Obviously Dave respects the Law by not signing.
It's surprising that Ireland's signature is there seeing they are going to have a referendum first on whether to accept it. This ploy means now: the Irish would have to vote "whether to leave the EU Treaty", not whether to join it.
Like when the British government joined the Common Market first, and asked questions later.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#12
Brian, here is a definition of sovereignty.
"The supreme, absolute, and uncontrollable power by which an independent state is governed and from which all specific political powers are derived; the intentional independence of a state, combined with the right and power of regulating its internal affairs without foreign interference."
Please tell us how that is compatible with EU membership or becoming a signatory to this ridiculous treaty.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#13
as same as the other 26 members peter,i think its called cherry picking.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#14
Nonsense Brian.
Every country that has signed the new treaty is signing up to lose their sovereignty. The majority of EU laws are made by unelected bureaucrats that sovererign states must comply with; therefore they are all agreeing to be castrated - they don't have any balls now do they ??
Roger
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#15
The Bohemians are with us, Roger.
Some countries probably signed the Treaty because they're ripe for bailing out and want money, so took the easy way and surrendered sovereignty.
"I give you my sovereignty, you bail me out!"
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#16
nonsense roger they will still have there sovereignty long after we are both deparated from this space.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#17
really Brian - how do you figure that out when they have signed over the right to set their budgets to the EU Commission?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#18
ross if you belieuve all the proergander on the issue thats up to you,i am sceptical of all propagander thats floating around.the only way to find the truth is being in and not sitting on the fence.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#19
Brian, Britain won't be signing the new EU Treaty, the vast majority of people here don't want it, and it would need a popular vote anyway to be signed.
The Treaty will most likely take them on opposite tracks to us, one track leading to Euroland, the other to Poundland.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#20
Brian go and read the treaty - it is not propoganda
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi