Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
A couple of points:
(1) If ASDA did pull out, would it be the end of the world? I have heard plenty of comments along the lines of 'this is not what we need' - it would offer an opportunity to rethink the development.
(2) On a completely different note, it seems to me Dover's education system is one of the town's major problems. I wonder whether on balance the grammar schools help or hinder the town - and similar places in Kent. Sure, it provides a good education for the 25% or so who make it - but how many of those stay in the town?
And what does the failure to make grammar school do to the remaining 75%? Would they emerge better qualified and skilled from a comprehensive system? Does the currect set up leave them short changed in terms of skills, self worth and life prospects?
Moreover I see SKC's days are numbered - quite rightly if it is letting its students down. If whatever replaces it improves the skills base, let it happen.
And on that score, I hope the sometime-mooted idea of a nautical college for Dover is followed up. Maybe a branch of Christchurch College?
Grammar school systems are not abour better or worse education, but about targetted education. It is a waste of resources to offer academic opportunities to people who are not academic, or technical opportunities to those who cannot benefit. It is how we, as adults, present it to our children that affects how they view it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
referring back the post by andrew about rethinking the development.
the asda deal was the only one on offer, if this falls through it may be another half a century before another deal is on the table.
the money people know that there is not the wealth in our town and its surrounds to make it attractive.
can anyone imagine "waitrose" opening a shop here?
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
Howard.
I have very negative feelings these days......Please don't enforce them.
Ian...
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Ian, please see my posting on your "whose me" thread.
Howard, there are a lot of monied people in Dover - they just don't shop here !
There are agreed, certain areas of Dover where people and property are poor, as well as certain areas where property and people are quite well.
This is the same in every Town and instead of being so negative all the time (yes, we know what isn't right) look around you and be thankful for where you are.
We have the most beautiful coastline and countryside on our doorstep - get out and enjoy it.
We have the most famous and well-known cliffs in the World, the second most popular Castle in England and some wonderful history that many other Towns and Cities would bite our hand off for.
We are on the verge of some incredible redevelopment and regeneration, we've probably never seen before - or again if we aren't careful.
O.K. it is taking a bit longer than many of you would like (me included), but we are almost there.
Don't keep shouting Dover down all the time - other people might start to hear and believe you.
Roger
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
The very fact that people engage in these conversations should give anyone hope that better things can be achieved. I love Dover and the people here, it is the very fact that we are not always represented well or given what we deserve as a town, that encourages us to engage in these conversations. Yes we should keep challenging what the DDC, DHB do, and yes People like Tom Evans should keep raising solutions/questions, and yes, even some people should stand up and say that ASDA is a good idea...even if it is not!
I personally think the 'DTIZ quietness' is perhaps a sign that things are not going quite as anticipated and perhaps this is will be a time when the approach evolves. I'm not saying no to ASDA, or no to redevelopment, but there is now a huge amount of concepts in public domain to start allowing the ideas to evolve. It is the council's responsibility to unify these elements, to create capacity for the town's expansion. OK the Asda plans are there but how do they relate to the harbour's plan or the wellington dock. An amusing exposure of the lack of thinking was the original Weatherspoon plan that created an outdoor space that only had dialogue with the Asda car park...nice!
I realise wheel are in motion but before construction starts it is nothing short of arrogant for the Council not to address these very real connections, because the developers of supermarkets will not....and why would they? A pleasing view towards the sea will not make people buy more value beans or sweatshop garments. Now is the time for DDC to stand up and prove that they are listening and thinking about the future rather than developing 'bits' of the town in isolation. If they are not doing this they are simply not building an infrastructure for the future merely providing a quick one liner!
I'd just like to point out that I am not putting down the hard work of so many committed individuals that work so hard for our town, but am asking for DDC collectively to represent the town, rather than merely attempt to manage it!
I don't think Howard is doing Dover down, he is raising concerns about the people who manage it for us! I love Dover too, and share his concerns. Most of the postings on here from the people we trust to run things fo us do not reassure me. But Dover IS fabulous!!!
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Hear, Hear Bern.
I am suprised you're not a supporter of a comprehensive school model (not that it should be on this thread!)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
surprised by roger's comments, i support as many events as i can and continuously rave about the the scenery and history, especially to visitors to the town that i talk to.
to pretend that the town centre is wonderful will do nothing to see it improved.
big companies do their homework and look at postcodes, dover is not a moneyed town.
naturally there are wealthy people living in the area but not enough to attract the major stores to come here.
hence, we should be grateful if asda carry out their original intent and turn a derelict partb of town into something alive.
Dover is diverse, and has the potential to attract business, but not while the council is so poorly managed, and not while businesses in the town are so provincial in their thinking. They really do need to open their minds and ideas up.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the strange thing is i was in town this sunny morning, saw a charity shop open, was in folkestone this afternoon, saw 3 charity shops open all with potential customers inside.
cannot always blame the business rates or the council.
business rate is a flat charge that is unaltered by longer or more convenient opening.
going back to my earlier post about the christmas light turn on, every year one sees children with false ears and lit up wand type objects and other things, all purchased from street traders in town for the day only.
fair enough they have to earn their living, but none of the shops sell the things that children demand on the day.
if they do, it is not made clear to people walking past.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
So Bern with your business wisdom what business are you running?
I also play the piano and other stuff but I don't do gigs any more. It isn't necessary to be currently involved in an activity to understand it. It ain't rocket science......
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
So Bern you make a sweeping statement about local businesses and you have no personal experience or expertise to back it up.
You have absolutely no idea about what local businesses are doing and the pressures and concerns that they have. I speak as someone who advises businesses and small business people. I have started 4 businesses myself over the last 19 years, all still trading and with myself actively still involved in 3. I have employed people and sacked people in my time. My mortgage is paid by providing services to the public and has been for 19 years and if I dont do it properly I cant eat. Do not try to preach to me and others like me about 'being too provincial' you dont know what you are talking about.
I am just off to spend two days at a hotel in Gatwick where I will be meeting with 120 commission based financial advisers, coming from as far afield as Aberdeen and telling them that they should be charging fees instead earning commission. I can tell them how to change their business models as well, if they pay me £2,000 a day to do so....
Local businesses too provincial - stop talking from the wrong orfice Bern.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
BarryW lighten up there me oul mucker...there's a good lad.
We are all concerned about the dover business model and its fair game for all to speculate as to what might be wrong. We all have varying degress of expertise but it shouldnt prevent an opinion..thats what we're here for.
If only experts were posting we'd have very few posters.
That's ok PaulB. I think most of my orifices could talk as much sense as some of the people tasked with running Dover sometimes!! Present company excepted, of course, and that clearly includes the luminaryBarryW, who I have no doubt is a skilled and fabulous human being!!!!
May I point out the word "currently" in my last post. And please don 't tell me I am preaching when I am just airing my opinions! When I start to preach you will notice and it will be abundantly clear! I will continue to mildly voice my opinions as long as it is allowed on this forum - if they offend, forgive me. I meant no challenge to your skills or experience, but I also respect my own and ask that you do the same. Just because I am not doing what you are doing right now does not mean either I haven't done it, couldn't do it, don't want to do it having lost interest in it and found a life, or am incapable of understanding a concept. Let's agree to differ and continue to share views - it's a good way to learn stuff that's useful!!!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i take it any views on euro 2008 will now be subject to ridicule.
do we all contribute only on what our job entails at this present time?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Bern, PaulB.
We have many excellent local businesses that are providing first class services in a very diffficult economic climate. We need more of these businesses locally and the ones we do have need support. They are struggling under a high tax burden, lots of red tape and an economic slowdown. Remember it was not just the low paid who's taxes were increased in the budget, small businesses suffered an increase in their Corporation tax while big businesses had it reduced.
Ill informed sweeping critisism is not what they need and comments such as Bern made are not helpful to them, or Dover. Who would want to open up a business here when they will be subject to such ignorant whinging and critisism.
By all means express an opinion freely but make sure it has some substance and is targeted. Fail to back up and justify a sweeping statement then you should be able to accept correction and critisism yourself, it goes with the territory.
If you want evidence of what I say Bern you can accompany me to a meeting Friday morning where I will be mixing with around 46 dynamic East Kent based businesses, three of them being market leaders in their field and Dover based. Ohhhhh, the meeting is in Canterbury at 6am, yes thats right 6am. Many of the people you sit there and attack as being provincial in their thinking are up and about meeting, networking and doing business before most people are out of bed. I will even treat you to the breakfast!!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
what a strange concept of business success.
the business breakfast at 6 am!!
my cat comes home at 5 am after a busy night's murdering, my milkman usually delivers 30 minutes later.
i would not call either successful business creatures.