Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
roger,if what you say is right about labour being in denial then the tories should bow there heads in disgrace because they are allso in denial,over past discresions.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
AAAArrgghh!! Governments are unwieldy, they often take wrong decisions, politicians are only human and are flawed. How many of us always make the right choices and take sensible decisions, even after checking things out? BarryW has a pragmatic and sensible approach: governments get it wrong and politicians commit human error, let's just make sure they interfere as little as possible with our daily lives and accept the limitations. Debate and the re-setting of goals and pathways is crucial, not weak.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
BERN;
I;m happy to accept your view, but that's all govts then.
in the past barryw has sent posting after posting slagging off labour
which is no great problem, but you cant have a one sided debate.
I have always tried to be consistent in my postings
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
OF COURSE it's all governments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is the point!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
It IS all Governments Bern, I agree, but Labour never admit to any of their flaws and mistakes, even now they deny they over-spent in their 13 years.
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ROGER;
Thankfully you accept it's all govts thats a start.
i have heard ED accept labours mistakes many times
looks like you hear wqhat you want to hear
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Ed was on TV the other day and he said quite emphatically that Labour DID NOT overspend during their 13 years and they were NOT to blame for the current financial crisis we have - the structural deficit and other problems.
If you are in powerr for 13 years, you can't blame anyone else.
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ROGER;
We are getting away from the original thread, but to briefly reply, you can )(not blame) but site other issues that can have an effect on the country, like the world recessioin, like the banks fiasco,, etc etc
i can only say iv heard ed speak on labours errors
as isay you hear what you want to hear.
most important here though, is not saying its that govts fault or this govts fault, but more important after all the changes(if this cobbled together govt manages to convince anyone to get them through)
that we have a N.H.S. to be proud of.
Not run for private profit and playing with peoples lives, but a N.H.S. run for the patients it should be serving
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I agree with your last sentence Keith.
Roger
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
ROGER;
You may agree, but i don't think it's barryw's or the conservatives vision
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
There is nothing wrong with profit. Some of the very best health treatment in this country are in private hospitals. Indeed the very best healthcare in the world is delivered by the private sector. I do not like the American system as such but it delivers the best outcomes in the world.
I really do not understand this blind prejudice by some agaisnt the profit motive.
By the way Keith - you love misrepresent the Conservative view. Speak only for yourself or your beloved Labour Party. I have my view about this issues and express those, the Conservative Party, sadly, remains too wedded to the outdated and inefficient NHS.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
In the same way you advocate the merits of profit that same logic should apply to pensions if you want the best ,loyal,trustworthy hardworking civil servants in the world then its only fair to reward them with a 'classic' pension.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Marek - I fail to see why Civil Servants should receive preferential treatment unaffordable for everybody else. There is nothing special about Civil Servants as a breed - lets face it they are at the heart of government incompetence, which is not to say that there are not many highly competent individuals.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Barry
I have had dealings with too many civil servants overseas that are willing to 'speed up' things or take a bribe (bung) in order to 'approve' an application, that is not the case in this country.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys or in their case you make up your salary in other ways.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
marek;
very interesting post me old mucker
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
No-one is suggesting paying them 'peanuts' just rationalising and bringing sense to their pensions. Even Civil Servants have to live in the real world.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
barry
in post 32 you state that the american system delivers the best outcome, only for those who can afford it.
many low paid americans cannot even afford to pay for a prescription let alone hospital treatment.
i believe this is now changing due to president obama.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
well lets say howard obama is fighting those that probably gain most on the changes
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - Yes indeed they do provide many of the best medical outcomes in the world - look at the stats. I however do not support the American system for the reasons you mentioned, I have said many times that I want a continental style insurance based system.