howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not what you may be thinking, a demonstration by people that thought the cuts should be deeper happened in london today.
the police rather optimisticaly turned up in force to no avail, only 350 people attended.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
These must be the readers of Barry's blog.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Yes BarryW is certainly an advocate for more stringent cuts. But as we can see from the miserable turnout yesterday...nobody wants to know. Economic theory may be one thing but the reality of cutting people spending power is a double negative. And things are set to get worse....electricty and gas prices are set to soar next winter just to make daily living even worse for so many more. The spirit of humanity just doesnt allow for any more cuts.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I have always said that you should not be too impressed be street demonstrations, whether rent a mob turn out or not. They are certainly not the kind of thing I would do.
Yes, I do believe that the government is not cutting enough and we need to reduce public spending to under 30% of GDP.
The sad fact that we have a huge client state dependant upon public spending - a deliberate act of policy by Labour for their own political ends. That does not alter the fact that such high levels of spending as we have now at 53% of GDP is simply unsupportable and while we have such a massive burden placed on the private sector we will continue to struggle economically. Even before 1997 at levels a bit over 40% of GDP it was really a problem and is one reason why we seem to go from one financial crisis to another.
The economy is an unstable upside down pyramid 47% supporting 53% - an intolerable burden. Much of the 53% is wasted and inefficiently spent, a lot of it on paying massive benefits that keep people locked into poverty and out of work. Economic madness.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
statistics are one thing, people are another.
fuel bills are excessive and starting to rise dramatically again, 20% of the people turned off their heating for periods of time last winter and plan to do so again.
with rising rail fares and petrol taking an ever higher percentage of wages many people are finding it might be better just to sign on than work.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
You cannot get away from the facts of life.
Howard - yes it is about people, something Brown forgot when he went on an unsustainable spending spree with other people's money. Putting this right is also about people too and getting a more sustainable economy from which the people of this country can benefit from instead of the short term fix of benefits and government spending.
So Barry how will the cons deal with the fuel crisis that will happen when prices go up this winter , its all well saying we need cuts here there and every where , but if we have a bad winter people will suffer especialy the elderly and worse off and increasingly the middle classes .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
when the cold does arrive and the fuel bills go up again the over 75's will find that their allowance has been cut by 100 quid just to show them that they are all in it together.
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
I just cannot believe that gas and electricity prices are set to soar again next winter. How on earth are ordinary working people on minimum wages, low income people with families and the elderly going to manage. It is already a real struggle for so many, deeper cuts my ass, people will die from hypertension, hyperthermia and other stress related illnesses but I guess those in their ivory towers won't give them a second thought
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Colette, your guess is a reality, they won't give them a secod thought.
Last Winter, the papers reported of elderly people travelling all day on buses, using their free bus-pass, in order to keep warm, as they couldn't afford to turn the heating on.
I didn't turn my heating on once last Winter, even though it's included in the rent, because I live high up, and don't feel the cold here.
But there are many people who really suffer in the cold, and those in their ivory towers couldn't care less. They grab more wealth instead.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Alexander, the properties below you are heating your pad, remember heat rises.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
It's alright Collette these people will be saved by the Private Sector....oh no it's actually the private sector that are screwing them, silly me. Frank Chapman (CEO of British Gas) only got paid £28m last year. And as for Roger Carr who got knighted after working with Centrica and selling off other British successes....what a joke.
Carr even went on to sell Cadbury to the US, securing oversea outsourcing and cutting hundreds of jobs. Ironic that a company started by a quaker with philantropic ideals (who would have loved Big Society) should end in such a greed based departure from our country.
As for the railways we subsidise them for as much as we paid for them when they were nationalised (the only privatised railway in Europe) and we also pay some of the highest fares....and shareholders also make a good return. We should be happy that these CEO saviours of the country earn 200 times the national average wage.
I suggest the next cut we make in this country is the 350 contemptuous 'Individuals' that made this purile stand.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
all very true, i doubt that all people are aware that their taxes go towards highly paid executives and shareholders of "privatised" industries.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Where else will tax revenue come from if not from the private sector? All of your envy and spite does not change the economic facts of life. The inflated inefficient public sector depends entirely on the tax revenues and wealth created by the private sector. Damage the private sector and you damage everybody.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Barry, there should be some very deep cuts, in this I agree with you.
We should cut the personal wealth of the extremely rich by 99.9%.
The average wealth of the top 1000 of these people in Britain is £400 million, so that would leave them with £400,000 each.
When you talk about spending cuts, Barry, you seem to target the wrong people, those who suffer if they have £20 a week less to spend.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
you do make me smile sometimes barry, you mention envy and spite which seems to have no relevance to the argument.
less well off people pay taxes to so called private industries that cannot stand on their own two feet, none of us are that gullible to believe it is right.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Of course Barry it has to come from the private sector, that is a fact. But this is about boundaries.
Yes I agree the public sector is inflated (although this is not fact). Inefficient, I also agree but again this is not fact as input (money) is subjectively linked to output, which in the case of the public sector is well being. eg. what use is a work force if it is ill?
We absolutely need the private sector now but previous marches such as the 250,000+ that marched against the severity and more to the point speed of the cuts, suggest we should not persecute the public sector either. I totally agree that the Labour government mismanaged the economy the 'grand correction' being implemented is just creating a gap. There is no way the private sector can accomodate the task it is being handed. My point is that it will not be the CEOs that feel this pain, even if their wages are cut by half, but it is the person on average wage. In much the same way we subsidise the Rail compnaies but it is us that pay their bonuses.
On top of this we hear cries of defence for the CEOs and bankers saying that they will leave our country if we do not let them do what they like.
I would actually like to see a Britain where we didn't need to have a public sector as it would mean we were all able to provide everything for ourselves but the simple fact is that we can't. Simply look at the average wage for a married couple; look at the mortgage of a 2 bedroom house in Dover; look at the cost of sending 2 children to a private school; heating the house and feeding the family. It's quite simple that the private sector relies on the public and the public is over inflated because of cost and situations created by the private. It's symbiosis and boundaries.
As for spite, no, I just don't like a system that facilitates such inequality (that's opinion not fact). And envy, I actually like people with money (they always throw great parties) but money has never been my motivation, just something that is a requirement.
Barry W,
You state that everything is labours fault, surprise surprise, and those evil reds have done all this wicked damage for there own ends.
Well being such a well educated gentleman you surely will have no problem explaining just exactly what you mean by labours own ends.
If I have been misled by labour I quite rightly have a right to know. I thought to myself now where can I turn to for a clear and honest explanation. I thought of writing to David Cameron but dismissed that idea because I could'nt afford the postage. Nick Clegg?? no, nobody believes a word he says any more. That only leaves the one true tory royalist I am aware of in Dover namely your self. So come, on draw the veil from my misguided eyes.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard - envy and spite seeps out of so much that has been said in this thread so yes it is very relevant.
In that I even I ignore Axelander - I can't believe that he is really as stupid as to actually believe what he said in #16.
DT1 - make no mistake, I do believe that it is necessary to have public spending but it must, absolutely must, be at a sustainable level that does not do damage to the economy. Our present level of public spending, in cash terms, would be OK, fine, if our economy was twice its present size. The point is that to help the less well off, to spend on education, health, roads etc you have to have an economy that is healthy and generating that wealth. By simply increasing public spending, as the last government did, with no regard to sustainability is just a cruel deception done purely for political reasons. Indeed I would say that public spending prior to 1997 was still too high as a proportion of GDP.
To get more spending on these things like health and education we must remove the impediments for business to generate the wealth needed. Businesses need less interference from government, less red tape like that appalling 'Equality Bill', more sensible and balanced Health and Safety and a much lower state spending burden.
The problem we have now is to get the country off the drug of the State spending as a high proportion of GDP. To get higher long term state spending we need cuts to present spending as well as other growth policies to make life easier for business. Over time the aim must be to reduce State Spending to under 30% of GDP with a law to make it illegal for any government to spend higher than that level. That does not mean less spending in cash terms (eventually - though it must fall in the short term) but it does mean growing the economy and the private sector before spending money.
Jimmy - you cannot know very many people or you have a very limited social circle... I have many times explained the many errors Brown and Labour made in economic management and I am not going to list them now. Suffice to say that they are addicted to high spending and high taxation and it just does not work.
