Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
I see Scotland has topped the league as the worlds largest consumer of the illegal drug. Surprising somehow...who'd have thought it. You would imagine some of those other dens of iniquity across the globe would be far worse but no....Scotland tops the bill.
Almost 4% of the population up there are on it. Getting blotto on cocaine. One would have thought a preference for the national product would prevail ie Whiskey. But no, they're all high as a kite on the white powder.
It must be something to do with the slate grey architecture and the damp dark drizzley nature of the place. Anyone who watched Case Histories recently will know what I mean. Gloom gloom all is gloom!
I guess they have to eleviate the gloom somehow. There was I thinking they were happy little blighters...all dem ceiles, all that haggis, all dem neeps, and all that whiskey!...and of course with fashion to die for...kilts and tartan...who could ask for more!
ps 2.4% of the population of the US are on it
and 2.5% of the population of England and Wales
so you can see how Scotland busts the barriers of international consumption
where are they getting it all???
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#2
I suppose for many it's a way of escaping the harsh reality that there is high unemployment,poor housing and Alex Salmond in charge.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
i would take anything to blot out alex salmond, such smugness.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#4
percentages are a bit misleading surely
Scotland say 8m people - 4% = 320,000
England say 52m people - 2.5% = 1,300,000
USA say 250m people - 2.4% = 6,000,000
It is still a lot of people and a lot of charlie
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#5
Ross
Here's a couple of terms for your slang dictionary....cocaine is also referred to as Bolivian Marching Powder or for 'A' listers ..Society High.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#6
I would have thought the percentage would have been higher going by how cocaine and drug taking is portrayed by the media.
Paul, I agree about Case Histories, it would be nice to have a little sun shine now and then otherwise not to bad a programme.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#7
If the figures on cocaine consumption correspond, then that means the quantities of illegal drugs detected in British ports really is the tip of the iceberg.
I think we have a case to ask for more border control, not to do so is insane and verges on to treachery! Complacency is not a strong enough word.
This is something that should be top on the agenda, and as Britain's first Port-town, Dover should be asking for these increased controls, without delay.
Our borders are full of gaping gaps, we should take this seriously, and I wish the Police would openly speak up to the Government to get the priorities right!
How many young children of today will be on drugs tomorrow - next year, in 5 years, if we sit down and sleep?
This is the hight of incompetence, and DHB, the Councils, and other authorities concerned, including other ports - both sea and air - should not sit back and let it go over us.
It is disgusting!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#8
I will of-course assume full responsibility for my wording above.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#9
Alex British
Border controls rest primarily with immigration,customs,special branch,port police and other spook agencies.It's a multi agency Border Force. The HMG are the one's responsible for the staffing levels, pay & conditions and policy
I suggest you write to the current immigration minister expressing your concerns.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#10
I think a lot of drugs come through transport, such as on trucks, I haven't gone as far as suggesting that immigration is responsible for the drug problem.
But as mentioned, the figures provided on drug consumption are totally shocking, and it really should be the concerned authorities to bring up the case, perhaps in a concerted move and effort.
Again, how many children of today will be on drugs tomorrow?
Border control to detect drugs is, in my view, a technical matter, as vehicles and passengers would need to undergo some kind of check, and currently, foot passengers are easier to check than vehicles, as a sniffer dog guided by a border agent can quite easily walk past passengers at the border, as they do, for example in Calais in the port, but to control cars and lorries with a preliminary check would require holding up the flow of traffic for a while.
But because border controls have been scaled down recently, owing to costs, it's a topic that one person alone cannot bring up and expect to solve single-handed.
I e-mailed MP Charlie Elphicke last year suggesting that a £1 per vehicle levy be introduced at Dover to contribute to the costs of increased border controls, and he responded saying that, unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.
Why should I do all this single-handed, Marek? If there are more people concerned about children's welfare, and the impact drug consumption has on young people, also as a potential danger, and on criminality, for example people trying to get money to buy drugs, and becoming burgalars, and so on, then surely I shouldn't be the only one to ask for more border-control spending.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#11
the problem of drugs cannot be solved by extra security at ports and airports, there would never be enough person power.
also bear in mind many new designer drugs and that old stand by cannabis is readily manufactured or grown here in the u.k.
many leading police officers have called for legalisation of recreational drugs so that the criminal element cannot profit from it.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#12
But what shocked me, Howard, is the enormous consumption of cocaine, as mentioned in this thread, starting with its title and the figures quoted. Hence we're talking here of cocaine not grass or ecstasy
Cocaine and heroine are both totally illegal, they are the two drugs that condition the economy of millions of people in Afghanistan, Burma, South America, and possibly elsewhere, where farmers sell it to drug cartels in return for a six-times higher income than normal crops would bring.
They are both extremely addictive, meaning that people addicted can not easily get away from them, and very expensive.
Often, when cut and mixed with other elements, they cause death, as the suppliers often try to earn more money by mixing the drug with other contents.
Also, overdose of these two drugs leads to death, and long-term use leads anyway to early death.
People on one or the other of these two drugs end up living a life of hell, and often their families too.
The costs for curing (NHS) and rehabilitaion, although important and necessary, are also high, leading to further spending.
The costs involved in Police work searching for drugs or dealing with the criminality caused by drug-consumption, are very high, and the cost on society is high, for example when young people die due to heroine/cocaine, or when houses are burgled by desparate addicted people.
These two drugs can be detected, usually by speacially trained dogs, obviously combined with personnel.
But the extra costs of this personnel, and of dogs and the training they require, which are a fraction of the above-mentioned costs caused by use of heroine and cocaine, seem to be too high, hence cuts in border controls.
So to save a few millions here and there on border controls, enormous State resources are drawn on to cure addicted people, to increase the Police burden, to drain money from people (2.5-4% of the population), or their families, so that the drugs can be purchased.
This money ends up in the drug-cartels, who use it to increase their evil circle of drug production and distribution.
So the next generation can be addicted and silently poisoned off by these evil criminals.
So what is the very small cost in extra border controls in comparison? A price well worth paying.
But I shall not go single-handed into this, there are enough people in places of authority who can bother themselves to join in, to make some concerted effort, if they feel it worthy.
One cannot just sit back and say "the money is not there, Amen". I expect more intellect than that from people in a position of authority.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#13
OK Alex
Let's start thinking out of the box and I'll play devils advocate.
I think we all realise we are not going to solve the drug problem.
Legalise drugs put them on prescription and sell them through Chemists therefore undermining the wealth of the cartels.
I have never smoked or taken any drugs in my life nor have my kids. So the parents have got to take the lead in telling kids whats good,bad,right or wrong. Lead by example and don't rely on HMG
As ,to use Alexs words ''long term use leads to early death'' The flip side of that is it reduces the burden on the NHS and is one less claimant on the shrinking pension pot.
Border Force staffing levels would not require bolstering. The Justice system would save millions in useless court cases and endless appeals It would also help reduce the prison population.
A win win situation. The drug users would end up killing themselves and in doing so make at least some contribution to society by not becoming a financial burden and then doing the decent thing by popping their clogs sooner rather than later.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#14
Similarly to the idea of reducing the appeal of wearing "hoodies" by getting a bunch of pensioners to wear and model them, reducing the financial benefit to crims and the "forbidden" nature reduces the initial appeal and drivers.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#15
The "war on drugs" is about as fatuous as the "war on terror" neither will have the effect the PR suggest it will but is a great tool to a) cow ones own population and further reduce freedoms and b) cow producer nations into being compliant to our commercial and military interests.
The radical solution is that will ultimately diminish not only the power of the criminal gangs involved but also reduce consumption, is to legalise drug use and sell it through licensed premises
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#16
and no politician would dare promote that, the press would hound anyone that did.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#17
quite right Howard
But maybe that is because the press, the main players in all 3 parties and major industrialists are all in the game of "manufacturing consent" to get us the "little people" to agree to what THEY want
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
#18
Money talks - the drug "barons" have influence, let's not forget.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
if for no other reason, we would protect our young(sometimes not so young) drug users from buying tainted stuff that can result in fatalities if the whole thing was legalised.
at present normally intelligent people buy pills off of a stranger at a rave and have no idea what is in them.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#20
Drugs can hit unexpectedly.
Like Marek, I have never consumed drugs, be it grass or cocaine. But what a surprise when parents and grandparents find out that their lovely child has become addicted!
It can happen, it does happen.
As posted above, the financial strain on the NHS, rehabilitation and Police to cope with the effects of drugs - we were talking here of the very hard stuff, namely cocaine, to which we can equate heroin, is enormous.
The amount of money spent on consuming drugs, a part of which leaves the economy and goes abroad to drug-farmers and cartel runners, must be huge.
Are these arguments not enough to realise that drugs drain our society both of human resources and financial resources?
To legalise drugs would be sheer insane self-destruction, but sure, if you want a generation of zombified people to become the new working-generation, the people who are supposed to work in factories, on farms, in offices, in hospitals, then why not legalise drugs and introduce them to schools too?
I haven't even mentioned what effect drugs can have on driving, on work-related accidents, on wrong decisions, on family-destruction when addiction is around.
And anyway, to leagalise drugs such as weed and ecstasy would encourage people, once addicted, to move on to harder stuff, so the illegal market of cocaine and heroin would flourish all the more. It would be one step of addiction leading to the next step.
According to 2005 UN report, the illegal drug trade is estimated at about 1% of total global commerce, meaning that illegal drugs reap a yearly income of over $320 billion.
A fine way to drain economic resources world-wide and convey such sums of money to evil criminals, who may-be invest it in other sectors of economy and weald incredible financial power!
So lets forget the bit about legalising drugs and centre on how not to allow young people to become addicted in the first place, and get back to the roiginal proposal of proper border controls.
Dover is Britain's first Port, hence my assertion that Dover should stand up and ask the Government to take urgent attention!
No, I won't do a single-handed job! There are enough people in positions of authority who can decide to take up the cause.