howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
courtesy of the independent
Householders who pay tradesmen in cash are "morally wrong", a Treasury minister has said.
Exchequer Secretary David Gauke accused homeowners who give workers cash of helping them avoid tax.
He said: "Getting a discount with your plumber by paying cash in hand is something that is a big cost to the Revenue and means others have to pay more in tax.
"I think it is morally wrong. It is illegal for the plumber but it is pretty implicit in those circumstances that there is a reason why there is a discount for cash.
"That is a large part of the hidden economy."
The Government loses about £2 billion each year to the black economy as tradesmen fail to pay VAT or income tax by not declaring payments and keeping them "off the books".
Mr Gauke's comments, in an interview with The Daily Telegraph, come as HM Revenue and Customs plans an amnesty to encourage workmen to pay their fair share of taxes.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Funny bloke this Gauke. He's married to someone who does her best to win her corporate clients a position where they pay as little tax as possible and yet holds forth about the proles and their tax position. It must cause endless arguments in the Gauke household.
And then this little gem taken from an advert by Gauke himself:
"Date added: 16 March
Closing date: 13 April
Job title: Voluntary Intern
Working for: David Gauke MP (South West Hertfordshire)
Salary: None, but reasonable travel expenses will be paid."
It goes on........
"David Gauke, MP for South West Hertfordshire, is looking to recruit a voluntary intern for the constituency office based in Rickmansworth for a minimum of six months.
Duties will include administration, basic correspondence, diary management, fundraising, campaigning and related tasks. The intern will also have the opportunity to work one day a week in the Westminster office.
The successful applicant will have strong communication, IT and organisational skills and be sympathetic to the Conservative Party aims and beliefs.
This opportunity would suit a student, recent graduate or similar."
Can someone remind me which political party he belongs to?
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
Paying in cash is NOT morally wrong for the person who is paying.
Whether the recipient (if in business) declares it or not, that is up to him, and his conscience, not me ! I am certainly not responsible for HIS tax evasion if I chose to pay in cash.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
this gezzer is such a troll,with so much card fraud about these days its much safer paying in cash.cash is what most people paid before the invetion of cheqes,debit and credit cards,gives rise to suspision that he edorses card fraud.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
most tradespeople don't take cheques and do not have facilities for card transactions due to not having an office, so cash it is.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I totally agree with Kath.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
So do I. It's between the tradesman and his tax/VAT return. What is also silly, is that if you, for instance, help a neighbour out with a big DIY job and he pays you a few hundred quid, you're supposed to declare that and pay tax on it.
I think there should be no need to declare such informal earnings, up to a limit, of course, say £2500 p.a., not to apply to registered tradesmen of course, unless the work is outside their normal line of business. For instance, if your plumber friend helps you lay a concrete path.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the man is clearly out of touch, i cannot believe there are many of us that have not paid cash to a tradesman, hardly the most immoral thing we can have done.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Conservative Hypocrisy.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
Read his words - Mr Gauke, the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, said: "Getting a discount with your plumber by paying cash in hand is something that is a big cost to the Revenue and means others have to pay more in tax."
It's nothing to do with whether the customer chooses to pay by cash or cheque - I pay my window cleaner with cash if I'm in and send him a cheque asap if I'm out, cost to me is the same plus stamp and envelope, cost to him is a considerable percentage of a relatively small fee taken up with bank charges.
It's the implication that he will split the tax he won't have to declare with you if you pay cash.
Difficult to argue with the hypocrisy charge though!
http://order-order.com/2012/07/24/david-gauke-worked-for-tax-avoidance-firm/?tw_p=twtGuest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Those that avoid paying their taxes with the me me me attitude asking the man in the street not to do the same are hypocrites of the first order!!
Audere est facere.
Guest 668- Registered: 13 Apr 2008
- Posts: 91
I know a few traders who do this, declare enough to make it look like they are earning enough to be working and not playing the game, then after a certain amount try and deal in cash as much as they can. To be honest, I'd do exactly the same :)
Unfortunately I'm PAYE
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
window cleaning used to be the best dodge then the tax authorities set figures on what they earned.
a window cleaner i used to have complained that they based his earnings on 5 days a week when in fact he only worked 4 and a half as had to sign on.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
Which is loosing the country the most tax, the tradesman who misses paying a few pounds tax or the big earner not paying the full amount because of a clever accountant and legal tax loopholes.
Sorry Mr Taxman I am with the small trader and good luck to him.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
The small trader failing to declare cash earnings in his trade as income is tax evasion and is illegal, full stop. Add up all the thousands doing that and tips not being declared etc etc and it will add up to a hell of a lot of money being defrauded from the State, probably more than a relatively few rich people doing it legally with 'overly aggressive' avoidance schemes.
Any of us, including that small trader, taking advice to arrange their financial affairs in a tax efficient manner to protect as much of their income as possible from the taxman is tax avoidance and is perfectly legal.
No-one has any real moral high ground here. None of us likes paying tax and all of us will want to minimise our tax bills. All of us who pay tax have opportunities for tax avoidance whether in a small way or in a large way if we happen to have a lot of money.
Show me someone who claims they like paying tax and are willing to pay more than they really have to and I will show you a liar.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
oh dear some ruffled feathers here.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
No Brian - merely placing the whole thing into perspective.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the perspctive i was looking at barry is that there are many tax loop holes,it seems unfair for the rich and super rich to use tax loop holes and the down to earth hard working chap who may somtimes gets cash in hand is wrong doing so in your eyes at the presant time.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
post 9 sounds about right
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
One is legal and the other is not, simple.
Everyone who is earning and paying tax has the opportunity to mitigate their tax legally, it is just that naturally if you have more money then you have more opportunity. Life is never fair and fairness is a dubious concept anyway as we all have different ideas of fairness.
The obvious solution, as I have said before, is not to witter on about it, not to make our already complex tax laws more complex, that has never worked, but to make taxes flat and simple. These would be harder to avoid and there would be less temptation to avoid them.