11 September 2010
00:0269882I'm surprised to see that this topic hasn't arrived on here yet (or have I missed it elsewhere?)
What do we all think of this? It's 11th September tomorrow, and one guy in the US wants to burn copies of the Koran as a protest against Islam's evil spread close to ground zero. He argues that he's only doing what the Muslims do (they're forever burning effigies, flags, and icons of other cultures) and feels that we have played too soft on an extreme religion for too long.
Is he right? Or is he a world-offending lunatic?
My personal views probably ain't worth much but I love the idea of Koran burning, but it only makes sense to me if he throws copies of the King James Bible on the fire as well so that we can start getting rid of all dangerous and foolish religious texts.
For as long as the "war on terror" has been around I've been convinced that it is more a war against religious entities than on terrorists, and I'm now more convinced than ever.
Happy September 11th folks!
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
11 September 2010
01:0269885I think they are two sides to Islam, the peaceful side and the extremist, and we in the "West" don't really know how to recognise, distinguish between or deal with them, and that's one of the biggest challenges we face.
Going to bed now as I'm the only one here.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
11 September 2010
07:5769897It is wrong to burn the Koran because it will only stir up more hatred from the extremists and more than likely more loss of life, Not everyone who follows Islam is a terrorist.
Yes he is right a good number of Muslims do burn effigies, flags, and icons of other cultures but that does not make it right, you are just dropping to their level of extremism.
I understand the guy that wants to do this is of a Christian following and certainly Christianity has no right to point the finger when millions have died in that name, I say this even though I do have a Christian believe.
No the world has enough hatred without trying to add more. Those who died on 9/11 should be remembered with respect but this is not the way to do it.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
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11 September 2010
08:3469899Rick I think this did crop up on another thread although which thread its on I cant now remember. But the burning of anyone's religious icon is not good. At the very best its an ugly gesture. In these deleciate times its also inflammatory in the extreme. But essentially its just the wrong thing to do. If you were talking in PR terms with regard to say a company rather than a country, it would be very bad PR. It gives an inaccurate impression of the US to the world and thats where the unfortunate aspect comes in.
The US is trying to portray itself as the friend of these Islamic nations like Irag, Afghanistan and so on...bringing democracy and world peace ( all debatable of course!), so a nutty preacher in obscuresville USA is not good for business.
Too much freedom of speech and expression is just a nuisance....and you can see it in action here.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
11 September 2010
08:4169900There is no such thing as 'too much freedom of speech and expression'. Yes sometimes it can be inconvenient but that is a price worth paying.
Hitler and Stalin would have agreed with you PaulB and that is a place we must not go.
11 September 2010
09:0069901Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
11 September 2010
09:0569902Burning books is wrong. It was wrong when the first emperor of China burnt history books, it was wrong when Caliph Omar burnt all books that were not the Koran, it was wrong when the Nazi's did it and wrong when American bible-belters burnt The Origin of Species. In the terms of religion, those religions wishing to supplant others always seek to destroy the traces. Rome replaced temple idols with their own gods, Christians regularly built on older sacred sites and burnt those who disagreed with them and Islam turned churches and sacred areas into mosques. The history of every religion is a blood soaked record of intolerance and persecution, bent on killing or converting all differing opinion. It is only when established that religions start to promote themselves as 'peaceful and loving' but the hatred and violence is still buried in their texts.
The proposed book burning is a further extension of the promotion of hatred from one religion to another and such actions should have no place in a civilised world.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 September 2010
09:1469906although the pastor is doing wrong, the world never got up in arms over when the taleban destroyed buddhist statues over 1500 years old.
the korans being burnt are replaceable, it is not as if it is a limited edition, the statues are gone forever.
buddhists are pacifists so no-one worried what they would do.
11 September 2010
09:1769909Good points Howard. Perhaps the nutty Pastor Jones should be burning mussies instead? I wonder if he is related to our very own Rick?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
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- Posts: 62,352
11 September 2010
09:1969911could be, rick seems determined to bring the world into another conflagration.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
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11 September 2010
09:2169912To me the question is, is it really this pointless and deliberately provocative act of burning the Koran potentially endangering the lives of troops, or is it the mass media coverage of this small bunch of cranks? If this proposed act hadn't been whipped up all over the media into a world-wide frenzy, it would have gone unnoticed and little harm done.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 September 2010
09:4669917if someone says or does anything against islam in their own kitchen, the news will be around the world in minutes.
lhe lunatic fringe of islam sit there with effigies just waiting for the chance to set light to them.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
11 September 2010
10:1669920Seems like Christianity has a similar lunatic fringe, Howard.
If everybody was inclined to respect other peoples' religious icons, works of art, literature and ways of life instead of viewing them through the prism of their own ancestors' prejudices, there would be no wars.
PG.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 666- Registered: 25 Mar 2008
- Posts: 323
11 September 2010
10:2969922AppearRos the height of foolishness to me and an incitement to riot, they like many extremists before them need no reason to kick-off, but this just breeds the problem with no solution.
Maybe if he had offered a reward for information leading to arrest (like Ross McWhirter - who offered £50,000 of his own cash) then he would have been taken seriously?
Of course he leads himself open to assasination now just like Ross in 1975 - but with little Kudos.
Just finished reading 'Last man down' - RIP to all the brave souls who even though many of them were offshift, came in to save and paid the ultimate price.
Oh Boy!, That'll be the day.........
11 September 2010
10:3169923Religion is tribalism, pure and simple. Religion gives good people the justification to do bad things. It is divisive, conflicting, controlling, and intolerant. I really don't care about the claims that it is just a "lunatic fringe", the fact is that this fringe seems to be endless and has existed forever, enough to make any claims of it being a minority fringe seem like denial of the facts.
Not being religious I don't pray, but if ever I did pray for anything it would be the utter and absolute permanent end of all religion and for the world to wake up from this destructive fantasy.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
11 September 2010
11:3869930Rick, in your first para, had you written 'religious extremism' instead of 'religion' I would have agreed with you 100%; however as you have written it, the paragraph is nonsense and the vast majority of 'good people' would disagree with you.
In your second paragraph you call for an end to all religion. Would that mean the imposition of atheism? Or would you ban that as well?
Otherwise an excellent post. Keep up the good work.
PG.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
11 September 2010
12:0969933Someone was once quoted as saying, "left alone good people do good things and evil people do evil things, it takes religion to justify good people doing evil things."
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 September 2010
12:2069934good point abiout the christian lunatic fringe peter.
the pastor would not have started this issue if he did not know that there are many that share his views, many fringe churches in the states are linked to far right politics.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
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11 September 2010
12:3869939RICK
Yes was posted some time ago when news was fresh
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,707
11 September 2010
12:5769942There are fanatics amongst all religious persuasions who need little or no excuse or justification to parade their prejudices and ignorance before the world. Whilst this is irritating it is when they use those things to perpetrate or justify violent acts towards others that it becomes unacceptable and unjustifiable. Sadly history is littered with countless examples of this from the Crusades, through the Moorish occupation of the Iberian peninsular and the Christian backlash, the torrid history of Palestine/Israel, through to the current problems centred around the "stans". Whilst religion may not per se be the root cause and catalyst it is used by many from the fundamentalist sides of their particular belief system to justify atrocities.
We must of course not lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of people who declare a religion, particularly in the western nations, are more secular than religious and are appalled by the acts of violence, stupidity etc. perpetrated in their name.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
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While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
