howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#1
all looks very unbritish threatening to enter the ecuadorian embassy, normally this sort of thing happens in third world countries.
are we dancing to the tune of the united states?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/motley-collection-of-disparate-groups-gathered-outside-embassy-and-chanted-we-are-not-a-british-colony-8053603.htmlSWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
#2
It's got nothing to do with the United States, and has nothing to do with Wikileaks. This is about an alledged rape, and for Ecuador to meddle in what is a Swedish domestic legal matter is pretty apalling.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
looks very american to me, the sex charges were brought long after they were supposed to happen and at a time that the u.s. had run out of ways to get to him.
anyway back to the main issue, when pc. yvonne fletcher was shot by a staff member of the libyan embassy no-one went in and the culprit went free yet assange has not been charged with any offence against a u.k. citizen.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#4
a strange case indeed,and the charges could and i mean could be trumped up.
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
#5
Howard, it may look very American, but are you suggesting the rape allegations be ignored? The extradition is legal and above board, having been cleared by every court in this country. The charges may be trumped up, but what if they are not? That is for the Swedes to sort out, not us and certainly not Ecuador.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#6
So what happens if they give him citizenship, and make him a diplomat, immunity and all that stuff?
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
#7
It makes no difference if they make him a diplomat. To recieve immunity, he needs accreditation from the foreign office, who he may find uncooperative.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#8
I agree with Howard's #3, I just wish the wretched man had the balls to face up to what he is alleged to have done.
I also fail to see why we are making such a fuss over what seems like a trumped up charge unless it is to make the USA happy. I can not understand the UK risking so much diplomatically over this fiasco.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
#9
Out of interest, what would be so wrong with his extradition to the U.S. given he has published secret military documents? There may be a public interest defence, but that again would be decided in court.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#10
I can see there are differing views on this, but to me it seems the Swedish charges are made-up and he will then be extradited to the US for the Wikeleaks.
The Head of the IMF had trumped up sex-charges made against him, so just because an accusation is made, doesn't mean it's true.
Roger
Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
#11
If the UK govt enter the embassy without being invited, we will be in breach of the Vienna convention and as such will be a serious breach of international law.
beer the food of the gods
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
#12
Roger, the Swedish allegations may be false, but they are serious allegations and should be treated as such. What sort of criminal justice system would allow the accused to call the shots? As far as Wikileaks is concerned, he knew the consequences when he published the documents.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#13
Anyone who illegally accesses top secret information and detracts its secrecy from the State and distributes it to the public, and that as a matter of principle and on an industrial-like scale, as a kind of pass-time, will inevitably become a public enemy in the eyes of many Governments.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#14
That may be so Alexander, but the USA are particularly brutal in this respect - and I'm pro-american generally.
I do not believe the sex-charges are genuine, I also believe we are playing a game of cheat with the US.
We're all entitled to our view.
Roger
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#15
Roger, this bloke may have set up an organisation that tries to hack State secrets, including military secrets.
It would seem he's capable of it and has tried his hand out at precisely that.
When it comes to secrets of national security, and here we are speaking of various countries whose security may be at risk, that's an area where one should not mess about with.
What he did is not freedom of speech, he hacked into state secrets.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#16
the police operation is costing 50 grand a day which is quite ludicrous.
he has to leave the country by a port or airport and everyone knows he is a bail jumper so nick him there.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#17
#15
He hacked into state secrets in much the same way as somebody that finds, and discusses the contents of, an MOD staff canteen menu would have just a few years ago.
If State Secrets are only and always what the State deems them to be then everything has the potential of being so described, and as nobody need know until after the fact we best all sit mute.
If it is to be the Vienna convention that is to be swept aside today what next?
On the one hand we have Hitler and Pinochet, who both recognised and respected the sovereignty of Embassies, on the other we have sundry assaults and sieges of 'western' embassies around the world each roundly condemned.
#16
He will travel as Diplomatic Baggage.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
#18
#17
This is not about leaking state secrets, it is about an alleged rape. I don't understand how anyone cannot see that those allegetions must be properly investigated. Assange and his supporters have made one false claim after another, seemingly to stall the legal process in both the U.K. And Sweden.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#19
If I may draw your attention to the following...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/16/ecuador-sovreignty
Some of which I have already alluded to, but the missive from Sarah Ludford MEP
(Liberal Democrat European justice and human rights spokeswoman) addresses the point made in #18.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
#20
The question of Ecuadorian sovereignty is a red herring used to divert attention from the real issues. The government informed Ecuador that following the Yvonne Fletcher case, legislation existed that could be used to revoke the Embassy's status, allowing Assanges arrest. They didn't threaten to do it, they simply explained that they could. Of course this would be a hugely controversial move, which would endanger our embassies abroad. Rest assured, it will not happen.
As regards the arrest warrant, I repeat this has been challenged in every court in the U.K., and those challanges have failed. The supreme court has made it's decision, but seemingly that isn't good enough for the Guardian.
The issue here is simple. Should Assange face questioning in Sweden over the rape allegations? If not, why not?