Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
kieth,if you feel strongly about this subject,why dont you stand as a ukip indiependant in the next local election.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Alex.
I absolutely disagree that all local politicians have lost touch and those that have lost touch should be worked on and made to see that it is us that they serve.
Just who was it, that won Dover this million quid? The lottery did not just bung it in your direction, someone worked hard on presenting Dover as a candidate, who was it?
I also think you are wrong about who is pulling the strings at National Level, it's not Parliament but big business, including bankers, that shout "jump" and when they do, top politicians don't stand upside down, they just lay down. They have lost control of this country and fighting for their survival, not ours.
Roger.
Your right, there are many local politicians that see the importance of caring for their communities. Some, like you, have been doing it for a long time; some are getting on board now. Of course, some have different reasons for getting on board.
But whatever the reason, it is the community that must take advantage of this and make local councils/councillors work for your community.
I think Ross is right that it is more distrust than apathy for us but I think many TC & PC councillors suffer frustration on theirs and our behalf's.
Most of them joined up to make a difference, I should think all of them quickly realised that the job was even harder than they thought it would be.
Why?
Red tape, bureaucracy, out of date customs and practises, suffocation from above.
All of these things and many more need to be changed.
London does not know what Dover needs. Local Communities know what they need.
We need to stop political infighting and concentrate on how to work together for the good of everyone.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Gary, politicians are the first people to tell us that politicians have lost touch with reality:
one political group says it of the other, and they say it back to them, while always saying so in front of a microphone and camera for public consumption.
They then prove they're right with the facts.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks Gary.
You are right that communities and community groups must believe that they can make a difference - taking that first step can be very difficult for some.
Roger
Guest 705- Registered: 23 Sep 2010
- Posts: 661
Roger/Gary- does this mean we get Betteshanger steam coal back?
I must say that the one issue that has bucked the trend(and everyone knows it!) regarding apathy was the spectacular (YES!) response to the local referendum on the Peoples Port. It shows that folks can spot when they're NOT about to be conned. The town hall had not been so packed for decades. Tell me guys are we going to get a People's Colliery?
Never give up...
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Roger, if a percentage of business rates will be staying with the councils as of April this year, it might be one step in the direction I've been outlining, but is it enough?
I strongly doubt it.
Only by implementing in full my proposals, that a more significant amount of local income remain with local Government, so that Councils have the possibility to rectify the economy within their administrative boundaries, including the payment of benefits, both housing and unemployment, and the creation of local factories and farm estates, will the British economy pull out of Austerity and bankruptcy.
These policies of mine will prevail!
Currently, the central Government pays housing and unemployment benefits, and therefore local Government does not bother assuring employment for local people, as it has no financial liability towards the results of unemployment and low wages, and does not activate any form of economic innovation, and stifles off any attempts and proposals by free-thinking citizens to innovate the economy.
So freedom of thought and spirit of enterprise are stifled off, and only corporations with bags 'a money can decide to - or not to - do anything.
Which is why all we hear is the woeful tune of "hopefully some big company will come and invest here..."
People should read some speeches from Pericles, or texts written by his contemporaries who knew him, to understand how the Ancient Athenian economy prospered.
Pericles praised the free society, where people were free to work and make the economy successful, for themselves and the City. The Athenian society was not perfect, but was based on principles of freedom and participation in both Government decisions and in the economy
What we have is, by comparison, a mixture of North Korean - corporate - banking run system gone bankrupt, and massively centralised both by the State and the big-time corporations.
The Chancellor Osborne, with his insane centralised Austerity, is just an imitation of the North Korean system, which has inflicted Austerity on its people and economy.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
It's a good job this is a "family" forum and no bad language is allowed Alexander.
Roger
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Roger Walkden wrote:GaryC, I agree that the Big Local should have/does have, nothing to do with politics and should not have politics brought into it.
I know (so does everyone on here) I am a Councillor, but I am unaware I have been political on the Big Local thread.
"Attacking the disabled has nothing to do with reducing the deficit". I couldn't agree more
"Introducing this bedroom tax has nothing to do with reducing the deficit". I know you know this Gary, but it isn't a tax, it is a reduction in benefit and we have the lowest reduction here. The unfair part (to my mind) is that even if someone is happy to move down to a home with less bedrooms, but there aren't any available, they'll still have their benefit reduced. This needs more thought by Ministers and Civil Servants.
"Stripping away workers' rights have nothing to do with reducing the deficit". I agree, but employment law is very complex and I'm sure we both know, there are good and bad workers as well as good and bad employers and Managers.
Ross: "As for the national level, politicians have totally lost touch with ordinary people; this is true of all political parties". This does indeed seem to be the case.
Dover people have become very distrusting and I can understand their cynicism - they were like this I'm sure,when Jean and I moved here 18 years ago, but good things will be announced soon.
Roger
Roger, I hope your last sentence is ironic, it encapsulates the disenchantment so many people feel. There are always going to be good things announced soon but they simply don't happen.
If I'm honest I'm not sure the reasons why.
Is it that DDC announce plans that don't really exist in a poor attempt at PR/spin?
Is it that the plans are real but DDC are too incompetent to implement them?
Or is it something I'm missing?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
A most amusing thread this.
Apathy does indeed exist and it is for many reasons. But what really made me laugh out loud were many aspects of GaryC's post. The 70's language about 'workers' for one thing in which many employees failed to see how their future and interest were closely tied to the prosperity and success of the company they work for to such a degree they destroyed those very companies through their strike action and militancy.
What else....let me see....
First of all posting as if all 'pre-Thatcher' was wonderful. That could not be further from the truth. I, in the spirit of that post, will also refer to 'all Parties', who allowed the economy to decay after the war failing the deal with the out-of-control monster of Trade Unions that set about the destruction of many British companies. They followed the Keynesan economic theory that stoked up inflation while the more successful economies based themselves on the Austrian school of economics. Our big industries were nationalised and subsidised in an illconsidered attempt to shield them from competition that just resulted in them stagnating while producing second rate shoddy goods.
Mrs T of course changed that crazy and unsustainable model. She did far more for the people of this country than any government before or since. She gave the Union to their members, curbing the excesses of the Trade Union Barons and Shop Steward bullies, ending the tyranny of the closed shop and the destructive restictive practises. She opened up home ownership to the masses. She enabled millions of employees to buy shares in their companies and, in some case, full scale employee buy-outs. She was the best friend pensioners and employees had.
I note the idyllic life GaryC suggests people want. But, of course, for people to have such a life we need the thrusters, the risk takers the business people to build and run businesses to provide the wealth and jobs required for that idyll.
Reducing our over blown and expensive benefits is all about reducing the level of deficit.
Reducing the out of control benefit system is all about ensuring it is worthwhile for those out of work to get back into work.
Ensuring a priority for de-risking employing people is all about getting more jobs, more sustainable jobs and economic growth that can fund better pensions and help to those genuinely unable to help themselves.
Apathy is a problem and politicians of all parties are at fault. Getting us out of the economic hole must be a priority, to get growth and to increase tax revenues is vital.
Punishing the rich, high taxes and more interference by those guilty politicians is the opposite to what we need.
To do this we need lower taxes for everyone. No-one on the minimum wage should be paying tax or NI and no-one should be paying more than 37p in tax and NI. We need more jobs, we need business people to invest and to take risk in developing new products and businesses, To do that we also need to reduce the costs and risks they face when employing people.
More protectionism, more tax, more controls, more protectionism, more interfering politicians - that will just drive us deeper into the mess.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
BarryW.
I have only read your first paragraph.
AS I have already AGREED with you on several occasions, on several prior posts, regarding the appalling behaviour by unions in the 70's, I can only deduce that you are not as intelligent as you like to think you are.
Your narcissistic tendencies towards me are nothing for you to be laughing about.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#29
19-" risk takers"
23-" de-risking"
29-"to take risk "
30-"reduce the costs and risks"
It's all a bit risky and not.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
David L. I'll desist from giving a proper reply as you are so dead against, so negative, towards the Council and Councillors that any response will be met with negativity and possibly/probably abuse.
Roger
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Roger, my negativity is hardly exclusive and comes from experience.
I have abused nobody, the reason you won't reply is because it will be nothing more than the usual "jam tomorrow" promises.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
GaryC - once again you show that you are unfit for civilised discussion. What is your excuse this time for that tirade of personal abuse? Talk about thick.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
roger,david and barry,thick jam tomorrow when the boat comes in from jerusalem.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
rather ironic that a thread about apathy has seen more over the top posts than most other threads, come on chaps let's keep it from being personal.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
I have been censored!
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
is that a new female friend john,
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
makes a change for john, normally a restraining order.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
