Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
roger, it was worthington street,i dont think many people used it.the chap could get hold of anything you wanted musicly on vinyl or cd you wanted.
Brian the old record shop is a perfect example. I honestly cannot remember the last time I walked into a shop and bought a CD. The last god-knows-how-many albums I have purchased have been bought online and downloaded as digital files. Likewise I cannot remember the last time we went into a supermarket to get our weekly shopping, as we always order it online and have it delivered. It's the same with almost everything - if it doesn't come from an online retailer then it comes from a big store where I have plenty of choices and options and often better prices. I run a business myself and have had to adapt to this modern template for selling. It works! It makes life hard but at least we keep up with modern popular trends and pricing where we can.
I really do believe that high streets have had their day. I rely on them for practically nothing these days except a place to wander around looking at things which I can later buy cheaper online.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the chap who ownd the shop was in paraty with the supermarkets and internet.as a mater of fact he had more contacts in the music world than all the supermarkets put together.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Keeping up with trends is one thing but without the smaller shops who will set the trends? To take the sad demise of the record shop as an example, by shopping there I had the Fleet Foxes months before they became 'trendy' based on a recommendation from a shop, likewise Elbow, great band and it was not until their third CD that they hit the trend following supermarkets (the first two are actually better as well).
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Independence willsoon be a thing of the past. I used to love theindependent music shops,ditto bookshops. The Big Boys are almost there with their destruction of the Little but Good Ones. It is a real pleasure to spend time in a music or book store run and owned by someone with real passion for what they deal in. That reminds me of the little sweet shop just past the Town Hall - lovely!! A proper shop!
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
The sweetshop past the Town Hall...the butcher past the king's Hall...the baker past the Charlton Centre.... This highlights the problem that Rick refers to. Who is going to walk from one end of town to the other when the same goods can be bought at one out-of-town centre where the parking is free or when the internet brings them to your door? I remember working in Broadstairs when it was proposed that Sainsbury's be built at Westwood in addition to the already existing Co-op hypermarket. There was huge uproar and indignation from the shopkeepers of the High Street but then when I, as a worker, could get to the High Street -lunchtime and after 5.00p.m. - the shops were more often than not shut! If it was Wednesday afternoon there was no point at all. 20th century practice in the 21st century isn't going to succeed.
As I mentioned on another thread the services are spread too thinly in Dover and it can only be a matter of time before they all close - nostalgia and loyalty don't pay the bills as Woolies found to their cost.
Mark
Sad and dangerous too. Going to the shops, visiting church, having milk delivered, and lots of other social events - these held communities together, enabled people to bond, ensured vulnerable people had an eye kept on them, and supported families and community groups. Driving out of town to T***os (pauses to spit) or some other multinational, shoving a trolley full of goods down an aisle and driving hiome again doesn't have the same bonding and nurturing effect! We have removed some important social bonding mechanisms without a thought of how to replace them. Foolish and probably very risky. But not to the people getting wealthy on the back of it.......
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i still get milk deliverd 3 times a week,i do like some of these small shops in town.only go to tescos when needed.
I popped over to Bluewater with the wife this evening. A person could live there - it has everything! Food, clothes, entertainment, technology, gadgets, gifts, holidays, books, phones, toys, newspapers, shoes, army recruitment, pirate ships... What the hell more could anyone need? And it's all under one glorious big roof which points skywards like a great temple of consumerism, where the masses gather to worship at the church of capitalism. Really, if these places were so bad for us all would we really be packing the places out day after day from early morning until late evening? I think not.
Less than an hour up the road, free parking, and just about every type of consumer bliss you can imagine. Hey the place even has a huge Mac shop for us Apple fans! Awesome.
Now please tell me where in Dover (or for that matter any other high street) you can get your hands on such amazing variety in a single area? Hmm?
These big shopping places, and the web, are not the future any longer. They are the NOW! They are what we've chosen for ourselves and we get more because we demand more. Some may call it dangerous, unfair, greedy, or whatever, personally I call it progress.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Hi Rick
I don't think it is so much that these (Bluewater etc.) shopping centres are bad for us, but they are cerrtainly bad for town centres.
I can't argue with the fact that everything one may want to buy is under one roof there and that car-parking is free, but to me, they are bad for Towns - if we get more of them and they are as big as BlueWater is, then there will be no future for Towns or Town Centres and we will only have local authorities, looking after their statutory responsibilities.
We need to improve the experience of visiting a Town centre, of buying there and relaxing over a coffee, snack, lunch or whatever.
Dover (Town) has some very good architecture, but above the shops many are a disgrace, these need to be smartened up - it has been done in other Towns so can be done here.
Big black tubs with weeds or dead flowers need to change to all-year flowers; people need to know what shops we DO have; car-parking is still a big issue, not so much nowadays perhaps because other considerations have come more into play - the London-rated rents and business rates have so many anomolies within the Town Centre, as well as generally being too high.
There are many more issues of course, not just these and yes BlueWater can beat us (Dover - and many other Towns) easily on choice and free car-parking, but we can work-up Dover on every other level and that is why I have said many times, we need a Retail Business Support Manager NOW.
Roger
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
RICK
Progress???? to watch our town die is progress????
I fully understand the multi national companies can always beat the little town centre one small shop.
And yes people will make use of the tesco's etc, but never the less the town itself is dieing, ands no matter how you look at it, is that realy what Dover needs?
Is the first thing tourists see as they come off the ferries/train/bus/cruise liners an empty town?
It was always a sad move when the District counciol encouraged business's out to Whitfield, it was the beginninhg of the end for the town centre, I said so at the time, and on here I did say out of 45 cllrs only myself and d smallwood voted to stop it happening.
But that has all gone now, and even at this very very late stage I hope anybody and everybody that has any influence will fight to keep the local shops local and help those shops in the town centre to survive(they cant throw £millions at things.)
The alternative is to see what you see in many towns up north like was shown recently in Barnsley town centre shops(ex)streets and streets of boarded up shops, do you want that for Dover? I don't !!!!!!
Ricks post sums up all that is rotten in our consumer society and I am rather hoping it is a wind up. Aiming to Be More rather than Have More leads to more peace and happiness inside than any amount of stuff can ever hope to bring. Stuff is nice, I like stuff, I have a lot of it, but it is not the main driver in my life. If that ever happens, please shoot me.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the same people that expound the values of the out of town shopping experience, are sometimes the same people that complain that their local town centre has been taken over by vandals, druggies, alkies, muggers and people choosing to vomit and urinate where they stand.
thankfully, there have been meetings between the government, business leaders and councils to work out a way of stopping this happening.
My hopes are so high I can barely see them above my ankles.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
We have become a society concerned with material possession and consumerism. Town planning is as much to do with political philosophy as with the physical fabric of the spaces. Those people who always go for the cheapest option, commend market forces and sway towards individualism over socialism are ironically those that hate the idea that town centres are dying. Pubs are classic example of this incongruent thinking, socialisation at work, yet some political parties promote an emphasis on the individual. Towns are very much the same, if we want well planned towns it's no good placing emphasis on individual elements but a whole plan.
Town centres have declined by our actions, internet shopping and out of town shopping. Personally I do not like this but it is as Rick says 'progress'. Collectively society has made this happen and as a result town centres (more to the point, town and district councils) need to rethink what happens in them. I still no reflection of this in the master planning taking place in Dover and I still think we are being sold short in so many of the planning decisions being made in Dover. In Folkestone the other night I noticed the number of good pieces of contemporary architecture springing up in the town (I do not mean Asda) planners are thinking about the quality of what developers are offering and if it's not right, it clearly doesn't go up. Why do we have massive enquiries about positive additions to the town (e.g the market square screen) and have no objections to the construction of the Woolworths building or the Brewers fayre/millers building? What is going on?
It's interesting that Keith mentions Barnsley that is a town of relative deprivation that has also seen it's fair amount of hard times. When we talk about 'world class development' Barnsley has been wonderfully progressive in addressing this by getting Wil Alsop to come up with an amazing masterplan. Alsop actually looks at modern attitudes to town centres and attempt to facilitate 'progress' as opposed to randomly stab in the dark at what might work. Although they realise this will not happen overnight Barnsley have a really exciting future that many are very positive about.
I only shop in the town centre and make a point of supporting local business, but it requires everyone to do the same to save town centres as we know them. I like the ideas raised by Roger placing more emphasis on going into town for the sake of going into town. Eat, drink, and pick up some bits of shopping. This is how I use town and it's great fun. A pound of beef sausages, some wet wipes and a cheeky pint of ale, provided an hours worth of entertainment yesterday. It sure beats sitting in front of a HD 100" widescreen TV watching Jeremy Kyle and scoffing at the dysfunctional nature of society (oh the irony) or enduring the Tesco experience.
It's that Thinking Outside The Box attitude that we need. Part of the role of local reps is to think ahead properly, not just economically. Having plans A, B,C and D in readiness in order to respond to events and occurences is a vital part of management, and unfortunately it is not glaringly evident locally. The function and performance of shops and services are as important as their value for money, and we need some creative thinking from our local reps.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,983
I have just supported the Town Centre.I went to Somerfield who will deliver my shopping free this afternoon ;I then went to the Green room read the paper over a cup of coffee ans toasted tea cake .Quick look in Smiths ,nothing caught my eye then over to M/s and then caught the bus home .Plenty of people to talk to going into town and coming home
Whilst im at DDC offices I could shop in Tesco but I always give it a miss .I dont like the new shop and anyway they withdrew our free bus direct from River .Now you have to catch two buses so its far easier to shop in town for groceries .
Just a pity about clothes .
.
The withdrawal of the bus service is entirely consistent with Tescos (pauses to spit) tactic of drawing people in and then dropping the incentives. the cafe is rubbish now (was ok initially), the bus service has been withdrawn, the service is often quite appalling and there is little consistency between stores or even between days. It has done its job of attacking the town centre services and shops and replaced it with an out of town (and bus-less) pile of poo with little or no social effect other than to isolate people and no redeeming features. Yes, it is convenient to do all the shopping at once, but you can do that in a well-stocked town centre and at farmers markets. Tesco and the other multinationals are loathsome beasts, evil personified and all the more so for being packaged in such a "family friendly" way, like Satan garbed in fabulous coloured clothes or the local nun revealed as a serial killer.
I know, I know..........
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
We prefer to shop 3-4 times a week for fresh produce therefore the only option is the local shops
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Another problem for the High Street's future is the sheer power of television advertising. A vast fortune is spent on this, and it creates a market, an appetite for the goods/bargains shown. This appetite is hardly ever serviced by the nations High Street anymore, but is serviced by out of town shopping centres full stop. Just look at the power advertisers, the ones with the vast budgets..B&Q, Morrisons, Tesco, Carpet stores etc...and 19.5 times out of 20 they are located in out of town shopping estates like the one at Whitfield. Its a powerful thundering galloping horse already long out of the stable.
Sadly the High St has no answer for this. And it is sad, as nobody wants to see barren town centres.
I saw the new B&Q up at Whitfield for the first time over the weekend...its just a barn in a field, but its up there with other barns and is likely to do well.