howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
We have all seen those terrible scenes on the news of northern towns and cities under water with a cost to the economy expected to be around 6 billion pounds not forgetting people having their lives turned upside down. The Government spurned expert advice and actually cut spending on flood defences whilst at the same time sending money abroad for other countries to spend on their flood defences.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
During this year we sent £100 million to Burma, Bangladesh, Philippines for flood relief. During this time £60 million was spent on flood relief in the UK according to the Telegraph 28/12/15.Our Overseas Aid budget is bigger than our Defence budget if you add in the tax advantages , Charities like Wateraid get for sending funds overseas.
All the money for Defence, Overseas aid etc is borrowed money .Our national debt stands at £7 Billion and still increasing.
Countries receiving aid are India, who has a space programme and nuclear weapons and North Korea also Argentina.
We send £55 million a day to the EU as our donation to the EU.Again borrowed money.
In 2011-2012 the UK Flood defence budget was cut by Tory/LibDem government, the same LibDems like Tim Farron who are moaning now.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
What really peeves me is the politicians like Cameron, in the past Miliband, Clegg, Farage standing in 6 inches of flood water, wearing brand new wellies for ego photoshoots just pointing for the cameras. Action is needed not cynical stunts.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The last thing people wanted to see was politicians who cut spending on flood defences show up for the cameras. Another issue is why rivers are hardly ever dredged nowadays.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
There have always been floods because of extreme weather and there always will be, there is little that politicians can do about that.
What our politicians can do is stop building on floodplains, dredge all our rivers and require farmers upstream to manage their land so as not to create even more problems. Many existing flood plans seem to simply shift the problem from one area to another so maybe a total rethink is needed, make use of local people who know the area rather than some highly paid consultant who lives in a totally different part of the country.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
Jan, there is a policy of using local people in planning that has been put in place during the last 5 years, known as the Catchment Based Approach.
Locally the River Dour Partnership includes volunteer groups as well as DDC, DTC, WCCP, Affinity Water and DHB reps. The RDP and WCCP are members with the South East Rivers Trust (SERT) and Kentish Stour Countryside Partnership of the EA-supported East Kent Catchment Partnership, which includes representatives from similar groups and councils over all the area drained by the Dour and the Stour. Although not specifically involved with flood prevention there are opportunities to put in views on planning matters, which at the moment includes the South East River Basin Management Plan.
SERT are the experts on planning and implementing river improvements, and through them we are currently receiving £31,000 of DEFRA funding for environmental improvements on the Dour, all of which have to go through a flood risk assessment.
So there is a route for local people to get involved, but unfortunately it is very difficult to get committed people to put in the time and effort - every one of our current committee holds positions on other volunteer groups. We would love to find more volunteers, not just people wanting to get in the river to collect rubbish - anyone interested can get in touch via
WCCPhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Government figures show that around 10,000 dwellings a year are built on flood plains with the number likely to rise.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
Jan, the EU legislation on dredging dated 2000 and river habitats directives of 2008 and 2009 prevent member states of the EU from dredging. The EU want to keep habitats and rivers in their natural state. In the UK dredging of rivers were a main of flood prevention for 200 years up to the year of 2000..On line there is article in Briebart dated 28/12/15 on this.Google EU legislation on dredging.
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
That's not correct Peter - plenty of info on action by the government on dredging
here.
There was so much misinformation put out about dredging after the Somerset floods that the EA put out a leaflet explaining their position - I have a copy but can't upload a pdf here.
The EA dredged part of the Dour at Charlton Green about 4 years ago, getting rid of silt and profiling the river to provide a better habitat for the resident trout at the same time.
Edit - just realised I put a link to marine dredging there, now can't find the one I intended to put up but will keep looking!
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
Thanks Ray.
Peter if that directive you mentioned existed how come the River Dour was dredged recently, making it deeper and faster flowing as well as giving us a small clump of beautiful bulrushes near Morrisons.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Quango upon quango in a morass of acronym soup. While there are local successes here and there on a small scale, the proof of the pudding is that the whole system nationally is totally unfit for purpose. The proof is in the outcomes.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I had read previously about the EU directive on dredging, I also remember a few years seeing the dredging at the side of Halfords. Maybe the ruling applies only to certain rivers:?
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
The proof is there Peter (both of you!) - just talking locally we already have Outputs that have resulted in Outcomes and more are on the way - if you're free on 6th Jan you can come and help out on another one locally
I've got involved in this purely because it does allow a local voice to be heard - the projects currently being funded on the Dour have been chosen from a list that has been generated with local knowledge and local needs.
What isn't there is the immediate funding for all the realisable projects (which are often immensely expensive), and the acceptance that you can only control nature to a certain extent and the cost goes up exponentially the more you want to control. If you look at the depth of the recent flooding and the area it was over there is no way that amount of water could be controlled by normal flood control measures like raising the height of riverbanks evermore.
Howard - the dredging isn't limited to certain rivers, just determined by need and available finances and we're working hard on finding a lot more of that for local projects that won't just be restricted to the terms of the Directive.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
I wish I could help Ray but this decrepit old body wont let me
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Dredging and other flood prevention work seems to be dictated by how much money is available even though we are the worlds sixth biggest economy and predicted to be the fourth biggest before long. People and businesses in York and other northern towns and cities will suffer for a long time after the water subsides, not forgetting people that are refused insurance because of the flood risk. We hear from some quarters that "man made climate change" is to blame but there have been worse floods in centuries past when there were fewer buildings and more open land for the water to soak through.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
A very good point Howard. While man's influence on climate is still highly debatable, man's stupidity in building on flood plains is not.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
Ray, What time and exactly where on the 6 th January?
Building on flood plains and on the green belts will increase to meet the Government targets.Captain Haddock has explained on another thread that councils get incentives and government donors like landowners, developers, building companies will push the agenda. Its always about money not social need.I just wish the experts would go to the Netherlands and see how the Dutch get on.Most of the Netherlands is below sea level.
Guest 977- Registered: 27 Jun 2013
- Posts: 1,031
Peter, it will be somewhere in Kearsney starting probably in the morning but details haven't been confirmed yet. Anyone interested can ring WCCP (details in the link in post #6) after the weekend.
As I said, we don't just need people happy to put on waders and get in the river, all sorts of skills could be useful.
Guest 943- Registered: 15 May 2013
- Posts: 449
Thanks Ray.I will be there.
Happy New Year.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
