Guest 1849- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
Sue Nicholas wrote:Shame on our MP.Our Fireman,Nurses Police and Teachers deserve a pay rise.The Conservative government need to be reminded they only have power as they are propped up by the DUP
in recent weeks we have seen how we rely on our emergency services.Im a Grandmother of a young nurse who out of her pay has to pay to park her car.These young girls have to work twelve hour shifts plus travelling to and fro to work
Charlie you are letting us down.
Its very easy to virtue signal, but how much of a pay rise should they get and how would you fund it?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,656
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:So much for Charlie and his compassionate conservatism, voted tonight to keep the pay cap on our stressed out emergency workers.
I would have been surprised if any Tory would voluntarily vote themselves out of a job and possibly put Labour in power.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Jan Higgins wrote:I would have been surprised if any Tory would voluntarily vote themselves out of a job and possibly put Labour in power.
True enough but why do they fall over themselves praising public sector workers in the aftermath of tragedy and then cheer like football fans when they realised they had stopped the same people getting any more than a 1% pay rise.
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Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,844
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:True enough but why do they fall over themselves praising public sector workers in the aftermath of tragedy and then cheer like football fans when they realised they had stopped the same people getting any more than a 1% pay rise.
I do believe that it arises out of the hypocritical oath: it's the nearest most politicians get to a principle.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,981
Re post 41 Cancel High speed 2 it will ruin so much country side
Cancel the MPs pay increase in fact reduce what they earn
How could they vote against an increase for Fireman ,Police And Nurses praise them for what they do on one hand Croocodile tears .
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Guest 2060- Registered: 19 Apr 2017
- Posts: 76
Sue. The 1% paycap is a ticking time bomb which Corbyn will use continually.
Morally wrong and politically stupid by the Tories.
It is worth noting that the Overseas Aid Budget will increase every year because it is based on GDP. At the moment it is £14 billion a year. The UK are second only to the USA in the size of budget. Much higher than Germany, EU, France, Japan.
Overseas Aid Budget is basically borrowed money. Every project paid by the UK.The British taxpayer will be paying interest.
Time to cut the Overseas Aid Budget? Surely India, Pakistan must have enough rockets for their space programmes and nuclear defence.
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Guest 1849- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
Thank you, at last some sensible discussion on here.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,476
The reason public pay is being held back I'd because private pay, especially when taking into account pension provision, has fallen so far behind.
Most public employees do bloody well out of the system, I certainly have for one compared to my immediate peers.
Here's a few FACTS.
Dan Hyde By Dan Hyde, Consumer Affairs Editor12:01AM BST 10 Oct 2014 CommentsComment
The true scale of the gulf in pay that separates private and public sector workers is revealed today in an report that includes the impact of "gold-plated" pensions for the first time.
Workers in the state sector received a fifth more than counterparts at private firms when pensions were factored in, according research published by the Institute of Fiscal Studies.
The think tank said teachers, doctors, nurses and other state employees received an average of £28,000 a year, while private workers received £27,000.
However, generous pensions added £6,000 to public workers' pay, boosting the total to £34,000 a year.
By contrast, the pensions offered to private workers added just £2,000 a year, giving £29,000 overall, the report found.
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The £5,000 gap was worth almost a fifth of the salary of someone in the private sector.
Experts said the figures indicated state staff were "on an incredibly good deal" because the vast majority still had generous final salary pensions.
Malcolm McLean of pension consultants Barnett Waddingham said: "Public sector pensions are streets ahead of those in the private because they have such valuable pensions, and the gap is growing."
The IFS said just 12 per cent of private sector workers had a final salary pension today, down from 38 per cent in 1997.
By contrast, almost all employees in the public sector had a pension worth a percentage of their salary, rather than the growth of money invested in stock market.
The study took into account age, region and education to create a fair comparison between similar workers in the state and private sectors.
Jonathan Cribb, author of the report said: "There is substantial variation in the estimated differential between public and private sector pay for different types of workers and across different parts of the country. This might suggest differentiating pay awards going forward.
"The uncomfortable truth is that it is lower paid workers, women and those in poorer regions who do best in the public sector, relative to the private sector."
Danny Alexander, the chief secretary to the Treasury, has promised public pensions would remain untouched "for 25 years".
The statement, made in 2011, was made to appease public workers threatening to strike over proposals to increase the age at which they qualified for a pension from 60 to 65 and water down inflation-linked payout rises in retirement.
The IFS took these reforms into consideration and said there would still be a 17 per cent gap between the total pay and pensions given to staff in the two sectors this year.
The gap was largest for women, where state staff earned 21 per cent more each hour on average. Men, by contrast, earned 10.5 per cent more in the public sector when pensions were included.
Younger and older workers were also relatively better off, the IFS found, while for those in middle aged the benefits were less pronounced.
John O'Connell, director of the Taxpayers Alliance, said: "It is unfair to expect the majority of taxpayers, many of whom have seen the value of their pensions fall in recent years, to subsidise generous retirement deals that they themselves cannot afford."
Mr McLean said: "We mustn't drag public pensions down to the lowest common denominator but raise the standards of pensions in the private sector, boosting workers' retirement prospects."
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,476
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/13/public-sector-workers-have-higher-wages-private-sector-counterparts/#
More FACTS above.
Off to the Scillonian food bank as I have squandered my generous pension on shiny stuff I don't really need ..........
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,844
Putting in suspension the question of the association of 'facts' with the Telegraph, and even the source of the article, a report by the 'independent' Institute for Fiscal Studies (and nowhere within the article is there a link to the said report), I'll just highlight one of the report's 'FACTS', quoted by the Telegraph:
'[The report] warned that as the gap [between public and private sector pay] closed there may come a "tipping point" where fewer quality job applicants decide to enter the public sector because they are put off by the lower pay.
The report warned: "In the future, if public sector pay continues to be squeezed and private sector earnings growth returns to more normal levels, then public sector pay could start to fall quite substantially relative to the private sector. One would expect this to have a larger effect on the sorts of people going into public sector jobs."'
If, as the report claims, private sector pay will overtake that of the public sector by 2019, then the gap is not that great in any case.
Did you actually read the article, Captain?
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Why do so many doctors, nurses and teachers leave to work in the private sector if the public sector pays so much more?
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,476
Wired Granny - 'in the future' it says which is fairly obvious. We are now.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
doctors should stay on the 1% because Blair ballsed up the pay deal when in office, stuffing their mouths with gold.
the nurses should get the pay rise.
it can be funded by stopping the right to bring litigation against the NHS. then we can sack all the pen pushers that mostly guard against litigation, and redirect the cash into services and training.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,476
London welfare benefits was £36 billion in 2012.
UK defence budget is £35bn.
Perhaps we would be able to give a pay rise if we weren't feeding, housing, healing and educating half the third world?
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'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
bob we are a third world country.
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Capt Haddock, you make some interesting comments; however, the reality is quite different. A friend of mine has retrained to be a primary school-teacher. She was a Teaching Assistant. She is in her early 50s. She finishes her NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher) year in a few weeks time. She teaches in an academy. Her pay scale is M1 around £22,000 per annum. Her pay review was this week and she was told that she has passed her NQT year, is a 'good' teacher but will only be offered a one year contract and on the same pay point - M1. Since the reign of a certain Mr Gove - the nice gentleman that scrapped teacher's pay portability and pay progression so that schools could pay them much more if they chose too (seriously) - the teaching profession has endured many hits to workload, work force and salaries.
Think tanks are just that, think tanks. The reality is out there if anyone care enough to scratch the surface and ask questions.
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Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Captain Haddock wrote:Perhaps we would be able to give a pay rise if we weren't feeding, housing, healing and educating half the third world?
Can you corroborate this statement and provide bona-fide evidence? Are you accurate in saying that the UK is doing these things for HALF THE THIRD WORLD? The sentence smacks of lazy, xenophobic scapegoating and undermines the authenticity in questioning the role, purpose and size of oversea aid budget.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,844
Captain Haddock wrote:...if we weren't feeding, housing, healing and educating half the third world?
No, no Bishop. This is most certainly a 'FACT' in the incontrovertible Gradgrind sense: I'm sure I read it somewhere in The Spectator / Daily Telegraph / Daily Mail / an Institute for Fiscal Studies Report / the Dover Express / Five Go Politicking...
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Personally, FWIW, I think that the Capt., has made some valid points.
In a former life, I used to live and work in London and any time that I happen to return there now it certainly seems that "Perhaps we would be able to give a pay rise if we weren't feeding, housing, healing and educating half the third world?". Not quite true of course, but completely understandable to think that way in my opinion seeing how London has changed over the years, arguably not for the better.
Perhaps though, like the Capt., I'm also " xenophobic " ? I fully admit that I do dislike some of the foreign element that inhabit our shores, especially of the Muslim variety, but I also acknowledge and accept at the same time that the majority are ok and just want to get on with their lives in a peaceful fashion like we all do of course.
My only gripe with muslims and their faith is that wherever in the the world they congregate there always seems to be trouble one way or the other. Of course, perhaps the facts are wrong and I'm just a plain old racist as well, im sure that someone will advise me?
Just for the record, my "hatred" is not purely against certain foreigners, I also dislike in equal measure for example an element of Millwall football supporters as well. I expect that there's also an "ism" for that, making me an even worse person than even I thought I was!
Being labelled as a xenophobe is a sin of course, unless you're someone like several well known foreign clerics that preach hatred against our own indigenous population.
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Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 2,844
Captain Haddock wrote:London welfare benefits was £36 billion in 2012.
UK defence budget is £35bn.
Pocket money when you take this into account:
The Times UK Rich List 2017 reported that 'the wealthiest 1,000 individuals and families have a record total wealth of £658bn, up 14 per cent on last year's figure of £575bn.'
What's more, 'The 20 richest alone are worth £191.765bn and have increased their cumulative wealth by £35.175bn in the past year.'
There are now 'a record 134 billionaires on the list, 14 more than were recorded in the 2016 edition.'
Some examples:
Siblings David and Simon Reuben, £14bn (a £900m increase in the past 12 months)
Lakshmi Mittal, £13.229bn (a £6bn increase in the past 12 months)
Roman Abramovich, £8.053bn (an increase of £1.653bn)
The Duke of Westminster, £9.52bn (an increase of 170m)
FACTS, Dear boy, give me FACTS.
It would seem that some have had a pretty jolly time under 'austerity'. And there was me thinking that 'redistribution of wealth' was a socialist idea.
As someone famously once asked, 'Do you see what they're up to yet?'
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'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus