Do It Yourself! (Ponzi version)
- Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
14 October 2017 00:21334596Now here's a funny thing. With all these rumours that councils are cutting back on basic services DDC are buying their own DIY store! Are they trying to tell us something? Perhaps we'll all end up having to fix our own pavements?
http://moderngov.dover.gov.uk/documents/s24012/DD08%2017%20-%20BQ%20Purchase%20Notice%20Final.pdf
This is of course part of DDC's plan to borrow £200 million to invest in commercial property to provide an income stream as interest rates are so low and nobody at Fort Whitfield can see how this could possibly go wrong (see South Sea Bubble, Tulip Mania, Icelandic Banks etc - see Manias, Panics and Crashes: A History of Financial Crises Paperback – 10 Aug 2005by C. Kindleberger (Author), R. Aliber (Contributor) for background reading).
Fortunately the Wearside Wonder is on the case - see Q11 http://moderngov.dover.gov.uk/documents/s23980/COUNCIL%20Agenda%20Questions%20Sheet.pdf
Unfortunately I can't reveal any more due to 'commercial confidentiality' (Ha, bloody ha. As though a few million invested by a tiny council on the South East Coast is going to cause immediate inflation in commercial property prices! And while I sincerely hope that it doesn't all go tits up, WHEN it does remember there was only one councillor who insisted his opposition to this was recorded.
)"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
14 October 2017 01:00334599As a further though, those following the New Swimming Pool project will recall that at least it was discussed by all councillors both at full council and in committee.
Here we've got the price of a half decent swimming pool being spent on a shed which sells paint and screws with most councillors on BOTH sides of the chamber having no idea what was going on.
I don't believe DDC has an official motto yet? Perhaps Caveat Emptor would be a good one?"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - 14 October 2017 09:01334603Firstly no indication of purchase price, secondly the primary aim is to get rental income - but from who? B & Q couldn't make it pay and businesses that have opened in Whitfield have gone for their own purpose built. I can only think that DDC have an agreement in place already if they fully intend to go ahead with the purchase.
- 14 October 2017 09:09334604When I first read the Captains post I thought I was having a senile moment then I read the.report well the part which is open to the public and realised its not April 1st.
Over the years DDC have come up with some hair raising ideas I often challenged these such as the installation of the giant TV screen which Canterbury declined .This at the time cost me dearly as I lost the job which I thought I was reasonably good at .Fortunately Paul Watkins was able to direct me to the Regional Housing Board so I still had my interest in housing maintained .
Back to the item under discussion when we have a town crying out for decent toilet facilities ,no one stronger enough to.fight the demise of our bus service ,fly tipping ,and HGV s parked in a residential area one has to question the wisdom if that's the word of some people
For the record no disrespect to the current Chairman I would not have signed the decision notice it should have been discussed at Full Council.Mind you I would probably have been demoted but principles are always worth having . - Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
14 October 2017 11:19334607Demoted Sue? Some of us have never been 'moted' in the first place!
Increase Your Wordpower - (Use of 'mote' as verb) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_mote_it_be"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,109
14 October 2017 12:25334609Don't think I quite got the nuances - is B&Q to remain trading on the site as tenant and who currently owns the freehold?(Not my real name.) - 14 October 2017 12:46334610The TV screen would have looked ridiculous in Canterbury Sue, visitors go there for the Cathedral and museums.
I thought B & Q had already upped sticks so no idea who will be the new tenant. - Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,109
14 October 2017 12:52334611Isn't it Homebase who are departing from Whitfield and B&Q who have been replaced at Folkestone?(Not my real name.) - 14 October 2017 13:01334612You could be right I may be confusing it B & G at Folkestone closing, just to confuse things Bunnings has taken over Homebase.
- Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
14 October 2017 13:06334613I have just been informed by my neighbour that Homebase have already closed.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
14 October 2017 13:08334614B&Q at Whitfield are and will remain trading as per their contract with the freeholder (now DDC). The rent received from the site will be part of the revenue stream which is part of the planned fiscal perpetual motion machine successfully powering the district into the future ................"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - 14 October 2017 13:10334615It's Homebase that have closed ,B&Q have gone from Folkestone.We will not know much more than the Captain posted as its in the confidential part of the agenda .
Yes Howard agree Canterbury have a Catherdral and the wise Councillors voted gainst a screen.We have a Castle and the screen if we had to have it since been removed was in the wrong location .Old history .We shall see in years to come if this recent idea was a good idea . - Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
14 October 2017 14:08334616I honestly don't know why I bother posting on here, since my ramblings are read by three apparently sane people, one ex-councillor and Howard's dog, but here goes.
Dover has more potential than almost any town in the entire country I can think of and worldwide brand recognition that money literally could not buy.
No-one goes anywhere to do what they could do elsewhere cheaper, nearer,in nicer surroundings or better, be it watching a bloody film or going to M&S.
Success is built on USPs (unique selling points) and branding.
The USP of Dover is 2,000 years of continuous history and artifacts thereof. Bath has Roman Baths, York has Vikings and both are marketed on the back of them for example.
We have Bronze Age Boat, site of Caesar's landing, Roman Pharos and Painted House, Dover Castle, Napoleonic Forts on Western Heights, WW2 -Hellfire Corner/Operation Dynamo etc etc to name but a few edited highlights.
To be unable to turn a pretty penny having the place stuffed with both national and international tourists spending a small fortune and finding that in Dover 'There is Far Too Much to do in One Day' can only suggest that those 'wise' heads running the town/district for the past decades are either very stupid or totally incompetent.
Looking at the White Cliffs Experience, DTIZ and proposed cable car, perhaps they are both?
Why is there not marketing both of the history and unique position of Dover for the future, try 'Three Thousand Years on the Frontline of England's History - now on the Future Cutting Edge Frontline of post-Brexit Britain into Europe'.
Sod building more bloody houses. Where is the high speed broadband? Where is 'free' town-wide wi-fi? Where are the start up hubs for the businesses of the future? Where are the electric car charging points?
Meanwhile when I Google 'Dover Tourism' I am invited to 'Visit White Cliffs Country' (Ha, bloody ha! How many people worldwide would know where the Hell that is?) and look round the White Mill at Sandwich! Can't wait to go.
I despair.
Don't believe me? Here's 10 reasons to Visit White Cliffs country:- http://www.whitecliffscountry.org.uk/See-Do/10-Reasons-to-Visit.aspx
When I was teaching HTML at the Grammar School if some kid had designed this I'd have told them to start again as it is crap. Hopefully no-one actually got paid for this rubbish?Paul M and Ross Miller like this"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - 14 October 2017 14:25334617Decision:
An opportunity has arisen to purchase the freehold of the B & Q retail warehouse at White Cliffs Business Park, Whitfield. In pursuance of the Council’s Property Investment Strategy, it is proposed to purchase the freehold in order to: (i) ensure the longterm stability of the White Cliffs Business Park; (ii) generate an annual rental income for the Council; (iii) secure an important site that has future regeneration potential; and (iv) protect the site from the risk of future neglect. Decision: To approve the purchase of the freehold of the B & Q retail warehouse at White Cliffs Business Park, Dover.
(I) How does it ensure long term stability to buy a unit currently in use?
(iv) What risk of future neglect? With the going of Homebase, B & Q are assured of a good future there. - Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
14 October 2017 14:50334618Questions.
If ownership of the asset with income stream is such a good thing, even on borrowed money on which interest is being paid, why would owners wish to sell in first place? Good point.
If any individual officer or councillor had the opportunity to access such borrowing as an individual would he/she have have purchased it along with the liability to process the debt or is this a decision they would only have taken with 'other people's money'? No chance
If it all goes tits up, will DDC be viewed, like the banks, as 'to big to fail' and be bailed out by HMG? You must be joking! The local community would be paying this off 'til Doomsday!
Surely there's a difference between this, an investment in commercial property, and the Irish Property crash? Not really. In each case property is being used as a means of speculation rather than utilisation. They might as well be buying bit-coins. Actually forget I said that. If the silly sods find out about bit-coins they'll probably take a punt on those because one of the bright sparks saw an article in the Daily Mail about how their price is going up! https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/7334/economics/irish-property-market-boom-and-bust/howard mcsweeney1 likes this"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - 14 October 2017 17:09334623The Captains posts are so interesting .When I think of Dover I see the beauty of the sea front and the way the town sits in between rolling country side . I love the history of the place our Musuem is a gem ,recently the 25th Anniversary of when the Bronze Age Boat was discovered ,was celebrated albeit by the few with the nibbles and a glass of wine (I think) Did not hear much about this .We could have has a special day for this .The Mayor and his fellow Councillors could have dressed up oh sorry they do and processed through the town .We could have had a hog roast on the green in front of the Roman Painted house and the church bells could have rung out .
The Captain is roght we donot make enough of our History .Sad day when the tourismn department dwindled away to nought.Thank goodness some of us managed to keep the Musuem.
You only have to look at Canterbury,York and most Cathderal cities to see how their towns survive.
Invest in our history and the shops will come .
The first thing our DDC Councillors can do Is to bring an end to the feud with The Roman Painted house .I got on OK with Mr Phelp .acknowledge his expertise and link thenRoman Painted house to the Market Square,
PS I realise the Bronze Age boat is DDC but tourists do like people who dress up .Sadly DDC Councillors donot have robes,but i my best with my collection of hats .I think some People placed bets as to which one I would wear. - Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
14 October 2017 17:30334624How does it ensure long term stability to buy a unit currently in use? Asks Howard.
Good point. Could ask the same of Sniffer Rix and Love Honey's purchase in Market Square!
Paul M likes this"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - 14 October 2017 17:50334625When it goes ?.Up as Bob questions it will be the rate payers who suffer.I understand having sold Council Properties which I was against but it was MPs who made that decision Tory Government but never reversed by Labour DDC are now buying some back .I suppose it's cheaper than building from scratch but my point is people in authority sometimes donot look far enough into the future .
- Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
28 October 2017 23:47335070Phew! Looks like Hammond is going to step in.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/28/councils-playing-property-market-face-crackdown/Ross Miller likes this"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson - 4 December 2018 09:52351897Courtesy of the Times.
Councils are still spending more than £100 million a month betting on the commercial property market despite guidelines limiting the practice as fears grow of a collapse in prices. Local authorities have spent £1.8 billion in the last year buying retail centres, shops and offices, chasing returns to replace revenue lost in government cuts. They have spent more than £3 billion since 2013 and some have spent huge multiples of their annual income.
Spelthorne borough council in Surrey has a net budget of £22 million but has spent more than £600 million. Its accounts declare it “heavily reliant on investment income” to fund services. In April, the government instructed councils to take more care to avoid risk after warnings that demand for retail space was falling and rents stagnating as consumers spend less or shop online. If rents collapse, councils may be left with debts that they can repay only by cutting services or raising taxes. Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, chairman of Olim Property which manages £1 billion of commercial property, accused councils of using taxpayers’ money to buy “rubbish assets”. “It’s a real double whammy coming for council tax payers and income tax payers,” he said. “Councils have been the buyer of last resort for very poor shopping centres and department stores . . . What they bought would have been overvalued at the time and is far more overvalued now.”
An analysis of council spending by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism showed that East Hampshire district council had paid almost £40 million for a Tesco Extra, and Runnymede council in Surrey paid £21.7 million for a Waitrose and a Travelodge. Many of the investments sit far from authorities’ areas. Last year, Broxbourne council in Hertfordshire spent £17.2 million on a site occupied by Tesco, 170 miles away in Grimsby; Torbay council in Devon bought a warehouse 230 miles away in Kent. Eighty per cent of Surrey county council’s investments have been outside the county. Councils often borrow at low interest from the Public Works Loans Board, part of the Treasury. There are no limits to how much they can borrow and they do not have to prove they can afford it.
Spelthorne council did not accept that it was taking substantial risks and said all its acquisitions since April had been made in accordance with the new guidance. Ian Harvey, its Conservative leader, said: “The fact that the acquisitions are financed by fixed-rate interest loans at historically low rates enables us to have confidence that future council tax payers are not exposed.” Other councils said that purchases had not breached the guidelines and investments were low risk. A government spokesman said: “Councils are responsible for managing their own finances and making the right decisions for the communities they serve. The new codes . . . strike the right balance between allowing them to be innovative while ensuring that taxpayers’ money is properly protected.”Paul M likes this