howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
We have a thread on the subject of DDC getting involved in speculation but many others are forced into this rather than just cutting services.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/29/vince-cable-cash-strapped-councils-at-risk-credit-bubbleCaptain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
howard mcsweeney1 wrote: forced into this
The nasty man made me do it? Don't be so silly Howard.
Notwithstanding, this is another of the mad schemes which have ALL PARTY SUPPORT on DDC to which I alluded on another thread and which the record shows I VOTED AGAINST.
Don't say you weren't warned!
(Just so you can get your head around the figures DDC total budget is only C.£13/14 million a year and they are talking about borrowing about FIFTEEN times this amount.)
The Director of Finance, Housing and Community presented the report on the Property Investment Strategy.
It was moved by Councillor M D Conolly, duly seconded and
RESOLVED: (a) That a supplementary capital budget of £200 million, for the acquisition of commercial and residential assets for the economic regeneration and well-being of the district and for investment purposes, be approved.
(b) That a supplementary revenue budget of £200,000 from the Regeneration Reserve, for the use of appropriate external professional support to establish a framework and assist with acquiring properties, be approved.
(c) That the implementation of the Investment Property Strategy, and the investment strategy criteria set out at Appendix 1 of the report, be adopted.
(Councillor D Hannent requested that his abstention from voting be recorded in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 18.5)
(Councillor R J Frost requested that his vote against be recorded in accordance with Council Procedure Rule 18.5)'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,680
Seriously no council is forced to borrow whether it is to speculate in the property market, or fund its normal activities; there are many alternatives available.
Notwithstanding the level DDC envisage in relation to their annual budget, just looking at how long DTIZ has taken makes it clear, to me at least, that it is highly likely that there will be a considerable period (5-10 years) before any returns accrue which of course means that services are likely to be cut in the interim as the usurers will not take a holiday on their capital and interest payments.
Now I for one think the risk and the high chance of delays in realise a return make this a desperate act by frankly desperate and unimaginative people. It is not too late for people to make their views known and for the council to change its mind; but that won't happen as they could never admit they were wrong,
I am sure the usual apologists for DDC's excesses and dubious decisions will parade their support for the borrowing shortly.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
Ross, seriouusly, you talk to any of the major players and the mantra is always the same, from BCCI investment through White Cliffs Experience to DTIZ et al.
'Well at least we didn't lose any money on it'
FFS This is honestly how they measure their success!
It's no wonder that the local definition of a 'successful Dover businessman' is someone who hasn't quite managed to go bankrupt over the past few decades, which is why Dover is basically full of people who never got out of Dover as they would not survive elsewhere and those who came to Dover as local low expectations fitted in nicely with their limited talent.
(BTW If it were to take 5+ years for the 'investments' to start making a return who will be paying the 'experts' from the consultants who will be 'advising us on our investments'? Because at least the councillors, for once, have had the modesty to admit that whilst they think they know what they are doing they don't know how to do it.
It would be funny if it was not our money involved.)
Thank God no-one with my views ended up standing for KCC. That could have derailed the gravy train AND upset the apple cart in one move!
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,981
Just as well I'm no longer a serving member as I would not have supported this.I t will take years to see any returns on money invested.im sure there are many things DDC could still do even with their current budgetary restraints.Lobby our MP and state the obvious all cut backs from central government are stopping local councils doing what they should be doing.
Take a look at Pencester Road area.Green outdated seats,new blue bus shelters with the most uncomfortable seats which.the elderly cannot use and the outdated black bolards covered in rust .Just a few things which could be gone cheaply as DDC now have a maintain workforce who could do this .No putting out to tender a few tins of paint job done
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
Sue Nicholas wrote:Lobby our MP and state the obvious
Unfortunately our local MP is busy re-announcing his work the end to the 40MPH limit on the M20 -
which was introduced in April 2015!
Guest 1881 and howard mcsweeney1 like this
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Captain Haddock wrote:Unfortunately our local MP is busy re-announcing his work the end to the 40MPH limit on the M20 - which was introduced in April 2015!
One gets the impression that you are the difference between 'unanimous' and 'overwhelming'. Do come to my confessional at some point - your burden needs sharing, dear child.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
The Bishop wrote:One gets the impression that you are the difference between 'unanimous' and 'overwhelming'. Do come to my confessional at some point - your burden needs sharing, dear child.
Not I your Grace. They are not daft enough to have me on their Executive, nor would I be daft enough so to serve.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Dear child, we're all subjects of the UK, we all serve. (Just some of us serve more equally than others.)
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
I was only thinking of Milton's words on the very subject whilst queuing in Waitrose the other day.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Of course: Paradise regained if you took a bag for life. Paradise lost if you forgot an had to pay out 5p for one.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock wrote:I was only thinking of Milton's words on the very subject whilst queuing in Waitrose the other day.
Queuing? Only people from social classes 4 and 5 do that.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
The Bishop wrote:Of course: Paradise regained if you took a bag for life. Paradise lost if you forgot an had to pay out 5p for one.
Nah. Last line of 'When I Consider How My Light Is Spent'.
+ Wrong Howard. I queue, you line up.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Council housing is the only way to go.
The government needs to print the cash to build them at cost price, around 55000 per unit... Planing forced due to need.
The rents coming back must be destroyed to prevent inflation in the economy until the debt is repaid.
tenants must be responsible for repairs within reason.
old people's bungalows need to be built to free up stock and reduce the care bills as if you put old people together they tend to help each other more in the community.
prefabs as a stopgap to reduce the housing benefit bill.
and finally, STOP inviting the world to rock up at our door
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Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
DT.C.is still paying off for the building they are in.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
kieth b,you forgot the tented village behind the castle.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
Interesting article with Kent OnLine here:-
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent-business/county-news/rise-of-the-casino-councils-188976/
Is that dreadful Cllr Frost the only one with any common sense yet again?
(As background this article is worth a read :-
https://www.ft.com/content/84892c56-1a17-11e7-bcac-6d03d067f81f … See also:-
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8142/CBP-8142.pdf …)
DDC purchases B&Q Whitfield, Whitfield Court (White Cliffs Business Park), former Co-op site at Stembrook SO FAR.
NB reports on purchase not for publication as relate to financial or business affairs of authority (Part 1 of Schedule 12A of the Local Government Act 1972)
All on borrowed money! All on delegated authority as set out in paragraph D2 of Part 3 (Responsibility for Functions) of the Constitution (and as amended by the Leader of the Council on 23 February 2017 and notified via Arrangement No 01/17 of 12 September 2017)!'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
Letter in EKM 12/09
I hope that fellow District Councillors read the excellent and informative article in last week's Mercury about 'Casino Councils'.
HofC briefing paper 08142 on 'Local Government commercial property investments' also makes sobering reading, outlining just some of the strategic risks involved as yet more councils drink the latest 'can't possibly go wrong' snake-oil.
As the FT wrote last year, the driving force behind this hedge fund-style activity is the same one that pushed local governments in Japan to buy property in the 1980s bubble, the need to plug gaps in their budgets after years of funding cuts from central government.
In Japan a rapid acceleration of asset prices as well as an uncontrolled money supply and credit expansion created a property bubble, which bursting, resulted in a huge accumulation of non-performing asset loans, causing difficulties for many financial institutions and the decline of the entire economy for over a decade.
In the US, such speculation has led to bankruptcy — most notably at Orange County in California, which was forced to declare itself bankrupt in 1994 after losing $1.6bn on derivatives trading.
To quote Lord Oakeshott, chairman of Olim Property, investment manager of £650m of commercial property for pension funds, charities and investment trusts “English councils punting on property is an accident waiting to happen.There are real echoes here of Northern Rock, where many punters were lent all the purchase price of a property, and the Icelandic bank scandals, where councils played a market they didn’t understand for short-term income gain.”
It's not as if we haven't been this way before locally. Long term residents will remember DDC's 'investment' in an Icelandic Bank back in 2008. That time it was only £1 million of our own money at risk, this time it's up to £200 million, and it's all borrowed money because, if you believe the narrative, we can borrow money at an incredibly cheap rate and such will be the return on commercial property over the next twenty years or so, no-one can see how this can possibly go wrong!
(Remember, 20 years ago there was no Amazon UK and no-one could foresee a successful High Street in the country without a Woolworths, Dixons, Mothercare etc - things change.)
Of course DDC will be hiring 'expert advice' to advise us on our investments, presumably even more expert than the highly paid advisors who convinced banks worldwide that securitisation and credit default swaps were a way of making sub-prime lending more secure (rather than less as it turned out!) leading to the largest worldwide recession since the 1930s.
I honestly hope it all turns out well, though I am yet to talk to a councillor who would invest his own pension fund this way, the 'cunning plan' having full support by all councillors of every political persuasion. Except one.
Not only did I vote against the scheme but have insisted that my vote against is part of the official record. Don't say I didn't warn you.
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,470
'If no one went no faster than what I do there'd be a sight less trouble in this world'
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Extracted from post 18
"DDC purchases B&Q Whitfield, Whitfield Court (White Cliffs Business Park), former Co-op site at Stembrook SO FAR. "
How much has been paid out so far and what is proposed for the two Whitfield sites?