howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Can't rule anything out with so many permutations, the trouble is the EU have set their stall out a while back and I can't see anything that will change their minds.
https://news.sky.com/story/five-different-ways-brexit-could-change-the-country-by-friday-11661869Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,666
If the PM delays Brexit I guess the next round of elections will be a disaster for the Tories and Labour will not do much better.
A deal is better than no deal, two years was ample time to have got the basics sorted, fine tweaking can be done later, when any real problem becomes clear. Parliamentarians who ignore the will of the people who voted in the referendum prove they are an insular bunch only interested in themselves.
Button likes this
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,915
And to think that this is only the Withdrawal Agreement, not the future trading relationship!
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Times.
If Theresa May’s deal is defeated again tomorrow the next issue is what Article 50 extension should the UK seek and the EU grant? Mrs May wants only a short two or three-month extension. She wants to recreate in May or June the same cliff edge that March 29 is now, in the hope that MPs will succumb to “meaningful vote three”. However, our EU partners also need to agree. Their reaction should be determined by two factors: resolving the Brexit crisis and respecting British democracy. The way to do both is to offer Britain an extension of up to 21 months, which would last until the end of the planned transition period.
Emmanuel Macron and Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, have started talking about an extension for a set period longer than three months. This is unviable if Mrs May rejects it, and she would do so because a longer extension would make her short-term “my deal or no deal” strategy untenable. With the extension rejected, the EU could not then credibly seek to force the UK to stay for longer than we wish to do so. Setting a long maximum extension period, with it possible for Britain to leave at any point short of its termination, is a wholly different proposition. It doesn’t matter if Mrs May says she definitely doesn’t want more than two or three months. The EU response would be: “Fine, if you can agree the present deal by the end of June, but since we are not convinced on past form that you can do so, we are giving you a longer period too, to avoid further crisis negotiations this summer.”
It is in the EU’s interests to do this. The EU 27 need to avoid a catastrophic no-deal almost as much as the UK, more so in the case of Ireland given the border situation. What of the European parliament elections scheduled for late May? Under EU law these would have to be held in Britain if we are still in the EU by the start of July. So the “up to 21 months” solution needs to include EU agreement to a short treaty protocol cancelling European parliament elections for any country engaged in Article 50 negotiations. Since the EU has as little interest as Britain in holding European elections here while we are in limbo, this is eminently doable. An up to 21 months extension almost certainly eliminates no-deal and attempts by May to resuscitate “my deal or no deal”. It makes it likely that the ultimate resolution will be for a referendum to stop Brexit. The European Commission won’t like this long game, but Varadkar, Macron, Tusk and Merkel all have a vital interest in the smooth demise of Brexit. Between them they can sort this.
Lord Adonis is a former Labour cabinet minister
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
The word meaningful is rapidly becoming meaningless through overuse.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Favourites to ascend the throne.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
One name keeps cropping up.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#3663. we all know what happened when a prime minister brought a piece of paper back from Europe don't we.
Pablo likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Will be a long day with MPs being pulled this way and that over the "new" backstop deal with many waiting to hear legal advice before making up their minds. The PM needs 116 of those who voted against last time to change their minds and keep her in a job.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
We await with baited breath, or do we? Do we really care less anymore?
The stark bottom line is that so much will probably depend on a handful of DUP members who cannot even command a majority in their own small part of the United Kingdom. If I see anyone else point to the June 2016 referendum and bellow "democwacy" at the top of their voice as a justification for this mess, then I don't think I will be able to resist any longer the urge to vomit copiously and extravagantly over this keyboard.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
After all that it was just a game of smoke and mirrors from the PM, her own Attorney General shoots the so called guarantee down in flames. The vote now seems to be a foregone conclusion if it is held today.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Just when we thought our politicians couldn't get any worse the gruesome twosome start a double act.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Beaten by only 149 votes this time, if she keeps going for another 10 votes she could get a majority.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
in her dreams howard,lol/
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,682
The next round of finger pointing starts now
Someone will blame some or all of the following in no particular order
the ERG,
the DUP,
The Labour Party & Jeremy Corbyn in particular & accuse them of playing politics,
The EU for not rolling over to the UKs list of fluffy nonsense
Jean-Claude Juncker for being Jean-Claude Juncker
The Republic of Ireland for digging their heals in
Gina Miller for having the temerity to ask the courts to direct Parliament to exercise its sovereignty
Remain MPs for exercising the sovereignty of parliament but ignoring the wishes of a majority who voted "Leave" [note this was only 37.4% of the electorate! (34.7% voted remain & 27.9% didint vote)]
David Cameron for bailing the sinking ship and not seeing things through
Theresa May for doing such a bad job
The Civil Service for doing such a bad negotiating job
Do not expect any finger pointing at those who are actually culpable:
The sainted nicotine stained man-frog (lied, lied and lied again, all round media whore and self publicist who doesn't give a damn about ordinary people as he has his very generous EU MEPs pension to see him ok)
Boris (lied, lied, lied in fact keeps lieing and only cares about his political ambition and sod the rest of us)
Gove (another lier and all round duplicitous cove)
Davis/Raab/Barclay (almost as inept as Brexit Secretary as Grailing in all his various roles)
Fox (lieing about how easy it would be to get trade deals and failing to deliver a single one in the time-scale he promised)
Aaron Banks/Richard Tice (Leave.EU founders)
Dominic Cummings/Matthew Elliott (Vote Leave founders)
Peter Bone/Tom Pursglove (Grassrouts Out founders)
howard mcsweeney1 and ray hutstone like this
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
I think you might be being a tad generous in your description of Farage, Ross.
As for the rest, I couldn't agree with you more.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 2,915
Phew, for a moment there I thought I was going to get the blame as a member of the electorate who voted, along with the driver of that bus!
NB: Charlie voted against the motion.
(Not my real name.)
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
#3679, Ross, I wish you would stop beating about the bush and say what you actually mean.
Brian Dixon and Ross Miller like this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
A Downing St spokesperson has announced that due to the hopeless incompetence of our PM a member of staff(Larry the cat) will cover all future news conferences.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Brexit is now dead.