howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 1535- Registered: 27 May 2015
- Posts: 399
Personally Howard I dont think there should be Churches myself and all these people dressed gowns with gold crosses and so on. Now my understanding of it is that Jesus was preaching the word, sat around tables and outside was not wearing anything grand. I think from this man made more of it all and hence churches etc - I dont like the Pope at all he is fake the whole of that is fake.
All I know is there is a book the 'Bible' thats says about a man who came here, it also says about the creation of man which I dont know was not there. I think , Lloyd Pye, on youtube would be better at this about how we humans came to be on this planet.
All I know there is not fire without a spark and this world filled things we dont understand. People use things for their own ends also like abuse in Churches and so on. If someone can give explaination about Jesus other than what the bible states I will be willing to listen. However, as we all were not there at time only going by what is written it will be opinion. All I know is I beleive something happened because millions celebtate christmas and easter, millions speak about Jesus and God so Jesus must have been a good man and son of God whatever origin it was from.
I know people say what god, what Jesus and more so when terrible things happen but fact is we are a solid form in a stinking nasty world so bad things will happen. People say when you die your loved ones come or someone comes- so whats all this about people still alive in a different form?.
Well few years back when we were with my father who was dying near to his death that day. He asked who the little boy was 'there was noone there' he later asked my sister who was standing at the end of his bed 'let the lady pass' little room at the end of the bed. We did not question it at all later he died that evening. Maybe he was seeing things due to drugs. He also said to us that things will change in the future and people will no longer leave their homes everything will happen from your homes.
So you know Ive seen some things in my life and heard them and there is more than this planet than dirt, metal and there is more to us its just we dont question or look for it.
If only everyone could be kind and honest what a better world we would be in.
Guest 1535- Registered: 27 May 2015
- Posts: 399
If only everyone could be kind and honest what a better world we would be in.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
You can't believe that something is factual just because a book has been written and lots of people talk about it, because the same can be said of Islam, Hinduism and Sikhism, and probably a lot more that I know nothing about. The christian bible holds so many contradictions that 'believers' have to choose which bits to use and which to discard. The old testament has some of the most disgusting stories that have ever been written (check out the story of Lot and his family for a story that even channel 4 wouldn't broadcast) and the new testament is hardly better, even after jesus has come to save us, he still insists that unbelievers should be stoned to death. Not my idea of a loving god, I'd much rather go without.
Paul M, Reginald Barrington and Jan Higgins like this
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
They missed a trick or two when pulling the bible together there are some rather excellent writings that should have made the cut, like the one with the talking dragons or the one were Jesus forces Mary Magdalene to watch him have sex with a woman he pulls out of his chest, then there's the one were he kills a kid for ruining his game and another for bumping into him. I would have payed a lot more attention in Sunday school if Mary Whitehouse hadn't been on the final editing team!
Arte et Marte
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,068
Pye was a charlatan: the Starchild business was, surprise surprise, proven fakery. However difficult it may be for some of us to accept, we are primates, evolved ultimately from something like a bacteria, without any extra-terrestrial or supernatural intervention.
We are also storytellers, and stories are a mix of experience and imagination. They are fictions. That doesn't mean there's no truth in them, but it does mean there's no Truth in them. Personally, I get more from Ernest Hemingway's fictions than I do from the those in, say, the Bible or the Koran. That's not to say there's nothing of interest in these two collections of stories, and I'm sure they have much to say about the cultures out of which they come. I never go anywhere without my copy of In Our Time and I think everyone should read it, but I won't burn you at the stake or subject you to a lashing if you don't. I would consider it equally absurd to set up Hemingway's alter ego Nick Adams as an exemplar, to establish an institution with him at its centre, to proselytise on his behalf, to force others to 'believe' in him, and to fight wars in his name.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Clearly one can believe that something is factual simply because a book has been written and lots of people talk about it, since that is what Amberleaf has chosen to do. To remove this choice (the "you can't" above) is, I think, just as fundamentalist as imposing one belief system to the exclusion of all others. It also seems to me better to believe as a result of being inspired by a book, than at the point of a sword.
But readers beware; even if you found a Dover Express dated 1AD and it were proven to be 100%, stone-bonker genuine, would that mean that the events it described were necessarily literally true and thus remove the need for belief?
(Not my real name.)
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,089
Button wrote:
But readers beware; even if you found a Dover Express dated 1AD and it were proven to be 100%, stone-bonker genuine, would that mean that the events it described were necessarily literally true and thus remove the need for belief?
It's the B.C. editions I have my doubts about.
Button likes this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
I don't understand how not believing in something because of lack of evidence is fundamentalist, nor is atheism forced upon people at the point of a sword, unlike religious beliefs, for which even popes have apologised, particularly the crusades and the inquisition. I think you will find that a lot more wars and conflicts have been started in the name of gods or religion than in the name of atheism, and also also remember that those who believe in the christian god, are atheists in the eyes of other religions, both past and present.
When I used the words, 'you can't', in my earlier post, I foolishly assumed that forum members would understand the point I was trying to make, so I'll rephrase that part...
With all the scientific evidence we have today, about atomic structure and evolution for example, there is very little need for a normally intelligent person who lives in a civilised country to fall back to the medieval superstitions called religion based on reading a book.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
Thanks for the rephrasing Mr N! My point now resolved, given that Amberleaf has the choice to believe in anything or nothing. I accept that wars have started in the name of religion and I think you'll find that atheism has also been known to be forced upon people at the point of a sword, as it were.
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Button wrote:Thanks for the rephrasing Mr N! My point now resolved, given that Amberleaf has the choice to believe in anything or nothing. I accept that wars have started in the name of religion and I think you'll find that atheism has also been known to be forced upon people at the point of a sword, as it were.
North Korea being the latest example.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
I don't know of any forced atheism, not even in North Korea, not that anyone really knows what really goes on there, but the point is that more damage has been done in the name of gods and religion, both today and throughout history, than has ever been done in the name of atheism. It would be very difficult to force an absence of belief on anyone, and banning religions is not atheism, that is more political.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,057
I would argue that the point is that curtailing the freedom of others is wrong, no matter what the frequency or motivation.
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(Not my real name.)
Guest 1535- Registered: 27 May 2015
- Posts: 399
Well when your all standing at his pearly gates scratching to get in Ill wave to you all.
As I said I am not a fanatic of anything, cause I believe 'my rights' and yes everyday I say God give me strength. At times in my life other than speaking to my dog or my children . I do have a conversation with God and his son because there is things I don't want to speak to another human about - my conversation is always in the strictest confidence, it is always good to talk knowing that- yes makes me feel better getting things of my chest
So were all here to just live, suffer and die and that is it then?
And I can be humble- Sorry Reggie about our spat no hard feelings- at least there is a thread about God and his son now.
I don't know about Adam and Eve but evolution seems not to explain us humans too well how we got here so quickly- If we were the flu I can understand the change from primate to human in such a short burst of time.....something does not add up really. However, were not the brightest sparks either we still cant fly into space without all the tons of junk to shift us up there.
If only everyone could be kind and honest what a better world we would be in.
Guest 1535- Registered: 27 May 2015
- Posts: 399
Those Aliens do it so well in and out of skys like fire flies, so fast you dont know they came or went at times.
If only everyone could be kind and honest what a better world we would be in.
Guest 1535- Registered: 27 May 2015
- Posts: 399
Weird Granny Slater wrote:Pye was a charlatan: the Starchild business was, surprise surprise, proven fakery. However difficult it may be for some of us to accept, we are primates, evolved ultimately from something like a bacteria, without any extra-terrestrial or supernatural intervention.
We are also storytellers, and stories are a mix of experience and imagination. They are fictions. That doesn't mean there's no truth in them, but it does mean there's no Truth in them. Personally, I get more from Ernest Hemingway's fictions than I do from the those in, say, the Bible or the Koran. That's not to say there's nothing of interest in these two collections of stories, and I'm sure they have much to say about the cultures out of which they come. I never go anywhere without my copy of In Our Time and I think everyone should read it, but I won't burn you at the stake or subject you to a lashing if you don't. I would consider it equally absurd to set up Hemingway's alter ego Nick Adams as an exemplar, to establish an institution with him at its centre, to proselytise on his behalf, to force others to 'believe' in him, and to fight wars in his name.
How do you know Granny, I mean were talking millions of years ago and you believe this? We all sit an think a lot, dont know a lot and say a lot. But did we come from Bacteria? How do you know there was no ET involved I mean we werent there at the time, some may believe it but how do you prove it. Is there bacteria with the same DNA as us today? Does Bacteria have DNA dont know not a scientist.
If only everyone could be kind and honest what a better world we would be in.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I don't know about talking to dogs as the two I have owned never seemed too intellectual and my cat clearly sees me and all other humans as inferior beings.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,068
A modest mode of transport for the humble evangelist:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44305873'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
Seems a most reasonable request, it has been a while since his last one and his point about fuel cost makes absolute sense.
Arte et Marte