Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
3 September 2010
13:5268586#1
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
3 September 2010
14:1068588#2
Interesting indeed Paul, and hopefully it all goes successfully. It`s a strange thing the last war between us and the German`s. On the one hand you admire and respect their military might and war machinery, together with their impressive uniform`s, but on the other hand, you have the attrocities by the ss and other`s, which has stained German military history forever. Going back to the aircraft above though, back in the 60s when I collected the Airfix model`s, it was always the German example`s I bought first, and I wasn`t alone in that, the Dornier amongst them.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
3 September 2010
14:2468590#3
yes it was the denial that is terrible
still today deny the deaths took place
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
3 September 2010
14:5168598#4
every country that gets involved in a war get up to atrocities at some time, we are no different.
the important thing is to be on the winning side then few people look closely at some of the activities that are best forgotten.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
3 September 2010
16:3468610#5
Germany as a whole know exactly what happened, it`s just the extremist group`s that deny it. These denier`s also exist in science and religion.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
3 September 2010
16:3568611#6
Keith, to be honest, I have met very many Germans, here, in Germany and elswehere in the world and not one has ever denied what happened. I am therefore surprised at your statement.
Let us not forget, we invented the first concentration camp and also shot POW's in the Boer War. We just didn't kill 6m of them.
If I have a beef it is with the persistent reminders of Jewish losses, when homosexuals, gypsies, redheads, twins and pregnant women were also the subject of mass extermination and atrociites beyond belief. Sadly, the tv, cinema and press all choose to forget those victims. Maybe it's becaue they don't own the tv, cinema and press?
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
3 September 2010
17:5968625#7
Back to the subject !!!
Apparently this aircraft could be a unique survivor of the type - it amazes me that considering the production numbers and the technological advancements made at the time, that there can be such few in existance.
The P38 recovered from under 10s of feet of ice in Greenland that amazes me !!
Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
3 September 2010
18:1668632#8
pity that the aircraft will go on display in london once retrieved.
would have been a tourist attraction down here, not that i can think of an appropriate location, unless the people at capel would have taken it in.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
3 September 2010
19:1768649#9
Would be nice Howard, but chances are that it will undergo years of restoration and ££££ before ending up at Hendon.
Talking of which I must recommend RAF Museum at Hendon as a it an amazing museum with lots of events and entry is FREE !!!
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
3 September 2010
20:0668657#10
I've just read the article about the recovery of one of the lost squadron of P38's, Wow! I can't believe that it was buried under 268 feet of ice and is now flying again. It would be nice to know if there was a very rich benefactor out there to bankroll the Dornier in the same way
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
4 September 2010
14:3368777#11
howard,outside paulbs palace on the green.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 September 2010
17:2368785#12
don;'t think so brian, that area is his private garden, the pool is being installed sometime soon.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
4 September 2010
17:4868787#13
howard.it would make a good feature in that garden.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
4 September 2010
17:4868788#14
howard.it would make a good feature in that garden.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 September 2010
20:5568799#15
paul
the thought crossed my mind that some airmen might have been in the aircraft making the issue complicated.
i read today however that two died but four were taken prisoner.
hendon is indeed the destination already decided upon.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
4 September 2010
22:5668807#16
Yes Howard that is one discuss that is taking place on some aircraft forums, but should human remains be recovered they will finally get an honourable funeral rather than lost at sea
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
5 September 2010
09:2368834#17
This aircraft is an historic relic, worthy of recovery for future generation`s to see and enjoy, as well as historian`s of all ranks. I hate the thought of such a valuable item being lost forever, and again, future generation`s cursing our generation just because there were a few human bones found. I`m sure the german aircrew dead or not would approve of it, unless they were deeply religious, in which case, I suspect they wouldn`t have been on board anyway dropping bomb`s on people. Buried or lost at sea, we`re all dead anyway.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 September 2010
15:4768865#18
i doubt that the children/grandchildren of the deceased would share your view colin.
civilised behaviour demands that all deceased people get a proper burial, irrespective of whether religion comes into it.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
5 September 2010
19:4368914#19
My family would certainly share my view Howard, but we can`t comment on the german family member`s views which we don`t know. Let`s remember there maybe a few people about today who wouldn`t have been if that bomber had delivered it`s deadly load. I`m not talking about burial`s here, I`m talking about an historic relic. Bones can still be buried and honoured whatever. If a whole Spitfire were found there complete with a skeleton in the cockpit, I would think it ludicrous to just leave such a priceless gem to rot away in the sea, something our future generation`s would not thank us for.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
9 September 2010
12:5769484#20
The RAF Museum have an interesting project webpage with pictures, combat report and other useful information. It will be interesting to see how the project progresses
I have my fingers crossed that it may be raised and brought into Dover Harbour after the recovery
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/cosford/conservation-centre/dornier-17-conservation-project.cfmBeen nice knowing you :)