Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
12 August 2009
23:3327062#1
What is the point of getting wound up about uk politician's. When we either kowtow to europe or the USA. Have we no pride left anymore or are we destined to be a region of whoever pulles the strings.
beer the food of the gods
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 August 2009
06:1827073#2
People were saying something similar in the late 790's about Britains steady economic decline. Mrs T changed all that. It will change again.
13 August 2009
06:3927077#3
That Mrs T crops up everywhere. I overturned a stone this morning and..............
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
13 August 2009
07:1027086#4
Love her or hate her, she turned the Country around.
Don't say that too loud Bern, she'll hit you with her hand-bag, like she did with her cabinet.
A great woman and Prime Minister who had more balls than all her Cabinet put together.
Roger
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
13 August 2009
08:0627097#5
roger,are you saying that she was a he/she?.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
13 August 2009
09:0227101#6
She had to make some tough decisions and sorted out some problems (largly for those people that were alright anyway). She turned it around for those that were OK, I don't think any of those who lost their houses, jobs, families would agree.
Make no mistake she promoted the 'sod you jack, I'm alright mentality' that too many people have today, leading to the lack of community we live in. She turned working class people to a level of one upmanship and greed, enslaving them to mortgages and stone cladding, subsequently making them easier to control.
She sold off things that simply did not belong to her or her government i.e. British Gas, Telecom, Council Houses, North Sea oil and just about everything else. She then tried to promote this as success...for who I ask.
Along with the Saachi brothers and the likes of Larry Lamb, she invented this dirty level of smearing the reputation of other parties, nothing short of a playground approach.
She was also so far up Ronald Reagan's back side it was ridiculous. Another stupid Republican, who's administration were so thick they used a song about disillusionment of being American as a campaign song. We have always been close with the american but the sort 'bum-chum' string pulling Guzzler talks about really got out of hand at this point.
I know Barry will defend her and claim that certain quotes have been taken out of context, but let's make her message very clear: "It's all about you", a pretty poor mantra if you ask me.
The only people that defend her are those that were OK before she was in power, and those that were OK after, funny that. I would have to put my family in this group, however we could see beyond just ourselves and our family (something she promoted people not to do).
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
13 August 2009
10:5827111#7
You're a great guy DT1 and I agree with most of your postings, but I don't agree with this one, not at all.
I've been working class bloke all my life and I agreed completely with what Maggie did to turn this Country around.
I abhor most strongly what Labour have done to our Country, whether now, or through the 70's.
I never took any of her changes to mean "I'm all right Jack"; I have always had a social conscience, unlike Labour.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 August 2009
17:0127133#8
i doubt whether the party that someone belongs to decides whether that person has a social conscience roger.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
13 August 2009
18:0427142#9
The party doen't decide whether I do, or can, have a social conscience it's true Howard, but the point I was trying to make, is that I do have a social conscience and I believe that The Conservative Party have a stronger social conscience than (New) Labour.
Roger
13 August 2009
19:3727149#10
It's a party - an entity, not a person. It can't have anything like a conscience. Individuals have a conscience, whether they are blue or red. Mrs T didn't, IDS did. Please don't try to convince me otherwise.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
14 August 2009
06:2127171#11
An entity, or a political party is made up of people Bern, those people as individuals can give the party a lead on a social conscience and what should be done.
Roger
14 August 2009
06:3127172#12
Bother!! I suppose you are right!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
14 August 2009
07:5827192#13
ROGER
i THINK i will agree in your case you are correct, but its not the committment of maggie at that time.
She destroyed many people, she started the creation of society that we have today(many carried on by Labour)
Only those that can't see past all this would say she was an ok kind of girl!!!!
She was horrid
She destroyed families
She started the change of the fabric of our society to one of greed
She was to blame for many of todays problems.
Yep Labour should have got to grips with many of these things but didn't
but I will NEVER be convinced shes an ok woman
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
14 August 2009
17:3027221#14
SHE was the best thing to happen to the UK since the war. SHE saved the economy of this country from its steady decline and reversed the tide of socialist mediocraty.
14 August 2009
20:4927238#15
And replaced it with a tide of gimmee me-me-I self-obsessed (b)ankers.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
14 August 2009
22:1327241#16
I'm with you bern
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
15 August 2009
07:0927253#17
Although I worked for a Bank for over 24 years (from 1970) but I never had the attitude of gimmee, gimmee and didn't take that approach to life - ever and I supported Maggie all the way until she became too stubborn really and wouldn't listen to sense - but a good job too, in many cases.
Talk about tough decisions, yes they were, but despite some pain, the country did gain.
Roger
15 August 2009
09:0927265#18
Just remember the 80s for a moment..............
..............and shudder
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
15 August 2009
11:1527271#19
You're a great guy too Roger and there is no doubt of your good nature. Pretty dodgy ground here though talking about Mrs Thatcher and social conscience, the two are incongruent. The reason SHE got too bossy and SHE would not listen is because SHE was only interested in what SHE thought. Which is why SHE was pushed. She was interested in the conscience of the individual (herself) Her inability to listen and work with others is ironically just a microcosm of what she promoted the 'individuals' of this country to do. However this selfish attitude generally leads to the shafter being shafted!
Social conscience is by very definition the 'shared conscience' the ideas shared by society. If a society, for instance, believes that ill people should be looked after or educated regardless of income, then society must provide this. Mrs T strongly promoted the opposite suggesting if someone is homeless, "they should not cast their problem on society....they should look to themselves first" Right so someone who lost their job in a country high unemployment will magic up a house for his family from where exactly?
You have mentioned before Roger that you grew up in a council house, I'm sure this wasn't because your parents were lazy or down and outs, but because it was something that they could afford. It didn't make you live in a council house, or keep you on the social 'gravy train'. Well there are still families out there like yours Roger, with children that could also do well for themselves. However there's no bloody houses for these people, they were sold off and never replaced, because SHE didn't want people being dependant (in any way) on the state. Instead they are at the hands of 'individuals', landlords that are not prepared to listen through stubborness and greed. Allowing people to live in conditions that are substandard (of course this can only be defined by society as substandard and not by the landlord looking to his own 'individual' definition).
By what you say Roger you were employed through this period and clearly a good job in the private sector. Why would her decisions be anything other than good for you. However it she had been in power when you where growing up in your council house perhaps your view would change. Proving there is nothing social about how Mrs T is viewed. The country may have gained financially, although north sea oil may well have helped any government, but did we gain socially? Obviously not, just some people did as individuals.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
15 August 2009
13:1327281#20
DT1
Spot on mate !!!!! I know Roger speaks from the heart even if misguided siometimes lol,.
You touch DT1 on the council house sales, and yep, spot on, thre Idea of buying your council home is a great one if they were replaced but the then, tory Govt was having none of it, kept nearly all the dosh, and ran!!
We saw the trauma when here in Dover the Tories tried to sell the lot, people came out and opposed them, but at that time the tories were trying to sell all the silver for short term gain.
Now Labour never changed in any great detail the council house sales, only made it a little fairer in the voting system to allow tennants to have a voice.
I'm finding it hard to find something that Maggie did to help me and people like me, As a trade unionist the move to make trade unions vote on industrial action was a good one, but sadly the playing field with employers was never evened up something she could have done if she believed it true partnership(but she didnt)
Iv posted before on wot a horrible woman she was, a lot of women feel so let down by her, expecting so much, but never delivered.
Well do you NON POLITICAL people think of maggies days?????