Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
25 February 2011
20:2594230In the mercury yesday it became clear that unless the local labour officials are being misquoted, then they have agreed to the next general election to be a woman only short list.
quotes of support coming from the last labour MP
As i'v stated before on this forum im a labour supporter, but when they get it wrong then i will speak out.
I have aways supporting anyone(incuding women)in politics, and the woman only shortlist is one that is degrading to women in general.
As i'v said if woman only shortlist is imposed on me then i for one won't be voting at the next general election.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
25 February 2011
20:3094235Oh i thought it would be right up your street
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 February 2011
20:3194236keith
there is already a thread on this subject "local reds", i believe that you have posted on there.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
25 February 2011
20:4194244howard
i agree but to try to findit al takes time
this was an update from yes days mercury
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Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
25 February 2011
22:2394250Keith is like Vic, he likes his name on the forum page.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
26 February 2011
08:0794279jan
you probably post as much as i do, but i love to read the varied views of posters.
For some time whilst on the council i was asked to post as the forum had become very much a conservative web site, all very one sided views.
These days im far more relaxed and have nothing to gain by posting politicaly as im no longer in the labour party.
for vic, yes he wants publicity as he struggles to get votes and has a belief that by posting on everything, standing for everything that it will get him elected when in fact the opposite will be the case.
I won't be standing for any elections so have nothing to gain by posting, i post because
1';people on the forum waned an alternative to the conservatives
2; i love hearing/contributing to the debates
3; the forum is a great site, and in the main runs very smoothly
ta
k
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
26 February 2011
09:2294297If women can't stand for election on their own merit, against the men, they shouldn't be given 'special treatment' to be elected.
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 February 2011
09:3594302Well said Kath.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 February 2011
10:3994304i would doubt the qualities of any woman that stands.
if they are willing to be patronised in such a way then it doesn't say much for them.
this could backfire big time on the reds.
Guest 700- Registered: 11 Jun 2010
- Posts: 2,868
26 February 2011
12:3494326Howard - was it in fact the WOMEN's CHOICE? Or was it the men who think they should be given special treatment?
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Lincolnshire Born and Bred
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 February 2011
12:5394329not sure kath, i would guess a mixture of holier than thou people at the top that have no understanding of how public think.
why they chose dover is even more of a mystery, the calculus website says that if an election was held now, the reds would win.
the last thing they would need is a contentious issue like this clouding things.
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
26 February 2011
13:4394332Surely a person who puts them self forward for Election should be chosen on his or her merit not because they are one or the other, I for one would want to chose the person i thought was best to do the job that be could a woman or a man
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
26 February 2011
14:2894334well it doesnt seem to have much support even from the women.
looks like a big clanger is about to be dropped
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Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
26 February 2011
15:0194335As much as I agree with Keefs and Jans sentiments regarding merits of each applicant etc I think the Labour Party, unlike the Tories,realise that many selection committees and procedures are male dominated therefore shutting the door on many female candidates. It's important that the Labour Party is represented in Parliament by persons of all creed ,colour , religion,rich or poor. For far too long the country has been ruled by hooray henrys and the landed gentry. The public school Oxbridge educated idiots that then give plum jobs to their old classmates ie Osborne and Bozo spring to mind.
Although I disliked Thatcher and her policies she fought long and hard to become the countrys first female Prime Minister...do we want to wait another 400 years before we get a second female P.M?
So as much as I appreciate the concerns expressed above I think it's a very brave step by the Labour Party to break the male stronghold and grip on power.
I shall now retreat to the islands German underground bunker to avoid the flak..
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 February 2011
08:5394404Marek - So called positive discrimination merely promotes the second rate over the first rate and that is a recipe for resentment, bigoty and failure.
One thing, from direct personal experience in the Conservative Party, is that 'male dominated' selection committeees are not a barrier to female selection at all, if there is a problem then it tends to be the women on the selection committee.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
27 February 2011
08:5794405BarryW
I thought I'd got away with my previous posting...
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
27 February 2011
10:1694412mrs thatcher shot to power in a male dominated party 36 years ago, no fiddling with things like "positive discrimination" to help her.
27 February 2011
13:5794430I am tempted to twiddle my tie and mumble about "another fine mess that got us into", but I will let it pass.........
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
27 February 2011
15:5294453Marek
I fully understand your viewpoint, and having been on many selection panels
I understanding where your coming from.
But the Labour party has always been a fairly broad church, and if Dover local members is anything to go by most women resent the move on positive discrimination.
You will see leading lights such as our own jan tranter a high flyer in the local political field and a labour activist opposes such a move.
So has labour got it wrong??
I suppose that's to be seen in the fullness of time, it's interesting that the outgoing labour MP who has decided to retire has never pushed the women only shortlist until now(is that because he's no longer standing?)
There are also a large number of women in the local party who resent this move.
to get a bit iof insight into how this can go badly wrong, when the labour party attempted to impose this before in a KCC seat I opposed it and took on the labour party at all levels, and won in the end.
but it took a lot of lets say talking lol.
within this debate there were a few(and it was a few)who looked at the debate as one of self intrerest, one was a candidate and thought she should win the selection purely because she was a women, and men shouldn't stand, that's not a reasonable argument, and i'm afraid she got both barrells from me.
In my 25 years i have helped many achieve aims in life, including women
andif we believe that women dont get a fair deal then we need to find better ways to achieve this.
positive discrimination does not give you better candidates, and you could end up with realy good male candidates being excluded and a poor woman candidate being imposed purely because she was born female.
The labour party may well feel they are being brave but i think it will backfire on them.
Sheila A do you have a view???
I think i know sheila's answer.
It does look like the local party will be taking the route iof women only shortlists and like howard indicated its the last thing labour wants if it wants to win the seat back, at the mo being favourites to do so.
This positive discrimination could well have the opposite affect than what the national/local party wants to achieve.
It's not to late for the local party to speak out against such a move
but will they?????
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
27 February 2011
16:0994461i can see a few people leaving the party on this issue, discrimination is unpalatable wherever it raises it's head.
disappointed that mr prosser is in favour, maybe he realised that gordon cowan would have beaten him to the nomination if it had been open and above board.
