UK credit rating cut...
- Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 June 2012 16:32176743people who need things to buy,the world is an open market. - 6 June 2012 16:46176746Funny that, I pointed out how serious the economic situation was ages ago but Barry Poo-poohed my suggestions as over the top and alarmist. Funny how he's finally coming round to reality. Soon he might even come round to the fact that Cameron's ideas are not working and his environmental policies and energy policies will help to totally destroy our economy. Still I give it another year and he might well come round and agree.
- 6 June 2012 17:03176747While i don't claim to understand a lot of what has been posted, i do know that UKplc is now beginning to increase its exports by a considerable amount. This i know because of the amount we take to europe.beer the food of the gods
- 6 June 2012 17:31176748They could cut all public funded pensions to a max of £20000 a year.
Nurses and low paid workers would all be ok on this
And only pay it for 20 years starting at 66 - 6 June 2012 18:27176761# 2....and blame it on the 4 day Jubilee hols.
- Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 June 2012 18:37176766and not forgetting the queen. - 6 June 2012 18:44176769interesting what tom had to say about increased exports, the pound is strong at the moment causing problems to our manufacturers trying to sell in the eurozone.
maybe our products and delivery times are beating others? - 6 June 2012 18:481767701/ Brian: #19 You do not solve a deficit crisis with more deficit and a debt crisis with more debt.
2/ Philip: #22 I have been consistent in what I have been saying about this throughout.
3/ Guzz: #23 Exactly right, our exports have been up and manufacturing in the Midlands has been doing well.
4/ Keith B: #24 Yes you have a point, public sector pensions are far too generous even after the changes being made by the government. The answer is not what you say but to put them on the same basis as the better private sector money purchase schemes. Not that this is enough to provide immediate relief from our problems.
5/ Reg: #25 The usual trite rubbish that you always come out with always refusing to see the truth of the disaster that is high public spending. - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 June 2012 18:54176774barry,i didnt say to borrow anything,a seris of goverment loans at a fair repayment system.and that dosent paramount to the goverment borrowing. - 6 June 2012 19:06176778LOL Brian - borrowing is the only way the government can spend more!!! They have to borrow at the market rate and if it does not reduce the deficit then the market will demand higher interest rates, not just from the government but from you and me as well....
- Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 June 2012 19:08176780barry,that amounts to banging ones head against a brick wall,as ive said the dosent have to borrow money to loan it. - 6 June 2012 19:57176787Osborne`s two years and what?
His only answer/excuse has been our triple `A`Status..!! - Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
6 June 2012 20:35176797Low economic growth is also a problem, perhaps boosting that might help? But yes government needs to limit borrowing albeit our sovereign debt is much better spread in terms of maturity dates and also carries much lower rates than our fellow European neighbours.
German banks are downgraded due to their exposure to PIGS sovereign debt, especially that of Greece"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi - 6 June 2012 20:46176800As I stated on the Calais thread, the countries that have high interest yields on their 10 year bonds are those that will leave the eurozone, starting with Greece.
They have to leave the euro in order to repay the high interest, and this can only come about by devaluing their new currency through more money-printing.
In this sense, they don't have to default on their debt, if they repay it in their new currency (drachma, peseta, escudo, lira). Obviously, these currencies will be devalued from day 1 through extra printing.
As stated on that thread, if these four countries didn't leave the euro, Germany and France, and possibly D. Cameron plc, and a number of other countries in the EU too, would be obliged to pay the high interest on the government bonds of Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy, which is impossible to do, unless, of-course, the European Central Bank and the Bank of England continued madly printing euro and pound sterling,
But if the ECB and the BoE went on with quantitative easing, the balance would tip, confidence in the euro and the pound would at some point suddenly drop overnight, and in a massive chain reaction, share markets would crash, there would be runs on all banks in the UK, Ireland and Europe, and hyper-inflation would brake out.
So to prevent this, the four Mediterranean countries mentioned above have to quit the euro, and they may do this any time soon.Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 6 June 2012 22:00176811Unfortunately and ironically the tories haven't helped matters. Over the years it was the tories themselves who signed away most of our own democratic rights and put them in the hands of Brussels who have trashed them. Cameron himself wants deeper fiscal integration in order that the euro crisis can be sorted out (Ha ha ha ho ho ho fat chance) meaning more power ceded to Brussels and even less democracy in the UK. Of course America isn't helping by insisting the same so as we have always done since the end of the war we tag along in order to do America's bidding.
The UK has the highest debt to GDP ratio of any country on the planet. We are sunk. It is only a matter of time now until it all comes crashing down but don't expect the government to warn you. The first you will know of it is when you turn up to withdraw cash and computer says No.
The UK has no prospects whatsoever and anyone who tells you otherwise is either deluded or haven't been watching. - 6 June 2012 22:45176816'We' are all in this together...
http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.com/Legal/News/2012/04_-_April/SEC_takes_action_against_rater_Egan-Jones/Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing. - 6 June 2012 23:49176820Philip's view is essentially right, but only with the conditional IF.
If the Government UK decide to do another bout of quantitative easing (QE), then it may be the one overdose that shoots the top.
Same applies to eurozone countries.
However, I can't see the banks in Britain suddenly running out of money overnight. There is money in Britain, the banks and other credit institutions are sitting on cash, as Vince Cable has been repeatedly pointing out, and are slow to lend it to British businesses unless they are quite certain they will get it back.
And providing PM Cameron doesn't embark Britain (and Britain's banks) on a bailout scheme somewhere in Europe, there is no reason why the UK banks should run out of money.
It's more likely the common people are running out of cash, and this is how the Government has been letting the steam out of the bankruptcy situation, through penalising the masses.
Let's not forget the 40% reduction in council budgets over a four year period, starting from last year.
As a result, DTC cannot plant flowers in baskets - the drought is over!!! -, some public toilets have been shut, and a number of other inconveniencies are emerging too, owing to things that councils can't afford.
Last night to my astonishment I found out there is nowhere in Dover where a person can sleep overnight in an emergency. I thought there had been a place in 7 Church Street. I found it was for sale!
So when you see a wet and cold person lying on the ground, who can't even stand up and walk alone, and doesn't want to sleep on a wet bench, you have to require help from 999.
All things to do with spending cuts. Austerity. The steel mask!
Not even the jubilee celebrations give respite from this. I mean, there's not even one day of the year when the Establishment gives a day of reprieve to those in Purgatory.
At least in Dante's first book of the Divine Comedy, people are allowed to stand ankle deep in the grass
drinking tea before they are told to stand upside down again...
Austerity, one could right a book on it.
How we must endure austerity, after all we're all in this together, we all go along the Thames in a gold plated barge, we all introduce a bank holiday on our 60 th birthday costing 0.4% of GDP in our personal household economy - after all an Englishman's house is his castle.
So, Philip, I think the agony is different to that which you described, more subtle: it's the poor who wake up to find they have less money, or more personal debt, and those who were not poor but have become so. Eventually realising they have only two pound coins to rub together.Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 7 June 2012 00:26176822Have to agree with you Howard, the government and opposition are all running around like headless chickens and haven't got a clue what to do for the best. I heard Mr Cameron on Radio 4 today saying that when he travels to Germany this week he will be 'encouraging them to make the right decisions'. Well I bet that the lady chancellor will think ..."Himmel that's rich coming from you Herr Dave"..!
As for building I hope Brian doesn't mean houses-we have enough of the damn things and none of them will be affordable anyway as everytime there is an announcement for an affordable housing scheme ,the developer pays a load of money to be allowed to build expensive ones.Never give up... - 7 June 2012 01:34176823Richard, remember there is a campaign on for Western Heights and Farthingloe.
It's to prevent more housing, of which we have more than enough at present.
Come and join us!Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 7 June 2012 06:50176826Brian #31: To lend money the government has to have it in the first place, that means borrowing it... That said, in my blog I did point out the difference between revenue spending (on day to day stuff like wages and benefits) and capital spending on infrastructure. The deficit is a revenue spending problem, we are spending more than we have in income on day to day stuff, and it is that which is the big problem. There is some very limited room to take advantage of low interest rates to borrow for some carefully identified infrastructure spending as long as the deficit reduction is not slackened, indeed more cuts are needed to cover the extra interest of this borrowing. That said infrastructure spending is not the be all and end all, as we have seen with the Olympic building it sucked in overseas workers to do the job.
Reg #32: Do you only do 'trite'?
Ross #33: Agreed. We need growth but deficit reduction needs more public spending cuts to accommodate growth policies such as those I have mentioned.
Alexander #34/#37: Default is part of the answer, but managed partial default. A bigger problem with decoupling is capital flight which will need to be addressed before the PIIGS leave the Euro. You speak of QE as a painless cost free solution, it is not. QE means debasing our currency, more inflation in other words. It takes approx 2 years for QE to work its way through to inflation. If you were a pensioner on a fixed annuity income it would be disastrous. QE1 added 1.5% to 2.5% pa to inflation, we are yet to see the impact of QE2. DTC, by the way, are not rate capped and are not limited on their precept and can decide themselves on what to spend on and how much to raise. They get nothing from rate support grant so the government have not cut their budget. That is not to say they should just raise their precept willy nilly or that they are wrong to exercise restraint.