howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#1
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,261
#2
15/20 a couple of guesses and 2 stupid wrong answers!
Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
11 out of 20, how many people know the year when Henry the 8th died?
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,599
#4
Got 14.
Knew Henry 8th's year, but not month.
TheThinWhiteDuke- Registered: 7 Jul 2016
- Posts: 365
#5
13/20
Is that a pass?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
I don't think the article gives the pass mark unless I have missed it, nevertheless I shall be doing the honourable thing on the morrow and leaving this sceptic isle and moving to the Calais jungle where I will break bread with my new Syrian, Kurdish and Bangla Deshi friends, not forgetting the young English middle classes that want to patronise in order to feel good about themselves.
John Buckley
- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#7
I think that the pass mark is 15 or over Howard.
I've done this about a dozen times previously and only passed twice. Ok, perhaps I'm thick, but I'd like to think that intelligence wise I was a good average at least. The whole thing is a complete and utter charade, simply designed purely to keep immigration down to the " tens of thousands ".
Just yet another political money spinner from the Home Office.
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Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
#8
And charging money for people who want to become a British citizen is a bad thing?
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#9
I wouldn't say that in itself that's a bad thing Paul, but what I do object to is the actual cost involved in even getting to the point where you can take the so called " citizenship test ". The test itself is just yet another costly exercise on top of other expensive requirements that one has to comply with.
In my opinion the test is irrelevant anyway and geared up to make it difficult to pass in order that the application fees keep coming in.
Are the government really saying that if an applicant, probably by more luck than judgement, scores 15 and passes then that person will make a good UK citizen and integrate etc., whereas one who achieves a score of 14 would obviously not be up to it?
However, I might just accept the concept of a test if the questions were more relevant to everyday practical life and not just knowing what Tudor queen etc., was on the throne at any particular time!
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Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
#10
The Government are saying use the life in the UK handbook to learn and revise and you should then be in a position to pass the test. If you don't take it seriously then you won't and don't deserve/really want to become a citizen of our country.
It's not an automatic right to become a citizen of the UK. People have to work for it and pay for it.
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John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#11
I know exactly what the government are saying Paul, sounds easy doesn't it?
I would have thought though that virtually anybody that has reached the stage whereby they were actually eligible to sit the "test" then they have already proved to some extent that they definitely want and deserve to become a U.K. citizen.
For example, my wife has already travelled thousands of miles in her own country in order to attend the approved test centres to take and pass the required English language test that is required prior to applying for a visa to visit the U.K. She has done this now three times because the UK Boarder Agency ( or whatever fancy title they call themselves these days ) keep changing the goalposts on what they deem to be a valid pass certificate.
In addition to this she had the same lengthy journey to obtain a health certificate at a specified hospital, couldn't be done at a local hospital for some reason.
Then of course you have the shed load of documentation and evidence etc., required to accompany each and every visa application which In itself is a minefield and if you slip up you pay again. ( that actually happened to us once. )
By this time you will have already stumped up many thousands of pounds in complying with visa requirements and the costs involved in obtaining the necessary paperwork. If you get this far you've done pretty well and in my opinion already shown sufficient determination to want to be here. Even though you then get " No recourse to public funds " stamped in your passport, which is fair enough I suppose, but just a shame that only seems to apply to applicants that try and do things legally and above board.
All the above has to be completed over a five year period before you can even be eligible to take the UK life test and in my opinion it's just another money making hurdle which has the aim of also keeping the numbers down. Shame the same rules don't apply to certain citizens of the EU!
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Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
#12
The same rules don't apply for any citizens of the EU, for now at least. It is a money making exercise as income from visas goes a long way to providing the resources to protect our borders.
It can't and shouldn't be easy to become a citizen and our tests are much less demanding than some countries. Look at the Canadian requirements for example.
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John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#13
" It's a money making exercise ". Well, at least you got that bit right!
Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
#14
Welcome to the modern world. Everything comes at a price I'm afraid.
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John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#15
More like the " rip-off " world Paul!
I don't object by the way of paying a fee for visas etc., but I do object to the vast amounts charged that bear no relationship to what the admin involved would actually cost.
But hey, at least I can sleep safe in my bed with the knowledge that my over the top payments are apparently helping the Boarder Farce ( as I think the Capt. describes them ) perform even more efficiently.
Money well spent eh?
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Guest 1849- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
#16
Crikey I've stumbled across a sensible, grammatical, well punctuated discussion, and I thought I'd logged on to Dover Forum.
Bravo Paul M and my good friend John Buckley.
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John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
#17
Thank you for your kind words David!
I hope that my above postings were not deemed to be too much of a rant, but I'm afraid this subject always touches a nerve having personally gone through the rigmarole of trying to appease the U.K. Visa and Immigration office.
I could write pages about the inefficiency and intransigence of the above mentioned office but will hold fire on that in order not to bore everyone to death!
But I will say that it is a long and torturous road that one has to travel to obtain citizenship, nobody expects it to be easy, nor should it be, but I know of several decent folk that have fallen by the wayside or given up due to the complexities of the visa process etc.
The reason for posting as I did was purely to advise other forum members that, in order to obtain citizenship, you have to do a damn sight more than just pass a silly irrelevant test. You could even argue that is the easy bit compared with previously having to meet all the statutory requirements of the UKVI office.
Just as a quick example, the photo below shows the amount of documentation necessary to accompany a visa application, get anything wrong and you're likely to have to start all over again with a new application. Fortunately we were successful on that particular occasion!
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Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
#18
I would say you are more than entitled to a rant. If you do things the right way, you seem to be penalised over those who run roughshod over the system.
There was a point when I was working with many foreign nationals, some of whom were supplied by agencies. Four families from the same part of the same country all worked together, sixteen in all, only one who had a work permit. Their agency was well aware of this but obviously didn't care in the slightest, and I think that at least two of the children were under 16.
Thats enough to make anybody want to have a rant.
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Paul M- Registered: 1 Feb 2016
- Posts: 393
#19
I assume you reported them to the relevant authority leading to them being deported and the agency being prosecuted?
TheThinWhiteDuke- Registered: 7 Jul 2016
- Posts: 365
#20
It's utter madness isn't it?
As I understand it, genuine citizens of other EU countries can bring their non EU spouses to live with them to the UK, as said non EU spouse is married to said European. Just turn up at Calais with valid IDs and a valid marriage certificate, and EU Freedom of Movement legislation is your Uncle. No job in UK or anything else necessary. We presume the other EU countries will have already processed/naturalised the non EU spouse.
A UK citizen who wants to make a spouse of a non EU citizen has to prove not only that they are married, but that they (the UK citizen) personally earn over £x per annum so that said proposed spouse will not be a burden on public funds. Plus all of the paper work , travelling, time and costs that Mr Buckley mentions above.
I'm not sure if, even after all of that, said new non EU spouse is ever allowed to work. Perhaps Mr Buckley could enlighten us (yes I could google for the info, but I'm betting it's a complicated minefield and it's late).
Woe betide you if you are unemployed or in a low paid job and fall truly madly deeply for someone while they are here on holiday for a couple of weeks. Nope. No dice. You don't earn enough.
I find it ridiculous (historically speaking) that it would be easier (bureaucratically speaking) to marry a Slovenian, Slovakian or Swede than an Australian, American or Canadian.
I may well be completely wrong about all of the above, but I'm sure I read it in a reputable news source recently (google, late, & minefield again).
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